2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[Tim Nelson]

Tim what would you do different with stalled talks and inaction from the current leadership?

Josh

Actually, that's a very good question. The problem isn't that anyone is wrong to ask for a release, but that there has been a complete reliance on the NMB and the whole image of negotiations is 'release'. That isn't to say that we can't get lucky at some point with a release, but relying on a 'crap shoot' alone isn't the sorta thing that can get us out of this stall.  Keeping this thing on ice for two months, then hitting 'spin cycle' again isn't the answer either.  A release itself becomes a confirmed impossibility after June.
 
Simply put, the leadership does not have the authority of the membership for the things it is speaking on behalf of the membership on, so the company is calling BS.  The membership hasn't taken a strike vote, in fact the membership really doesn't even have any idea what they would be striking for.  The leadership has intent to keep the membership ignorant about the proposals and I believe that is misguided and brings unnecessary risk and ignorance.  
 
I can't speak for the current leadership, but moving forward, the plan must incorporate informing the membership of the company's ridiculous proposal and asking for a strike vote and a rejection so that the leadership can have the total confidence, consent,  and authority of the membership.  It's called membership consent.   Both the NMB and Management have to see this. We might as well get this out of the way because sooner or later the membership must consent.
 
That doesn't mean that Parker will just roll over. No doubt he is taking the IAM at its word when the IAM said it will only negotiate stand alone talks until a single carrier.  But Parker's stonewall tactics have risk as well and could put this merger on stall as well.  He needs the merger to move forward, and that gives the union 'merger leverage' so that it doesn't have to sign some ridiculous contract.  Assumed in any strategy is the ongoing support from the TWU in stand alone talks, including post single carrier.  Easier said than done but it's workable for fleet service. 
 
MX may be a different story since the Association has real pressures from AMFA which promises a petition in August as current TWU MX are signing up.  Remember what I said about single carrier and September?  So we should not be surprised of AMFA's target date.  Again, fleet service appears insulated from the mess of a raid. Unfortunately, for our MX members, AMFA isn't helping matters in negotiations.
 
Truncating all of this, we need membership consent, and we need to keep the support strong from the TWU leadership.  The Association can not be compromised and we can't risk losing it. If we lose the Association, then our seniority is up for grabs and you can tack on another 12 months to any process.

 

[700UW]

There is no need to take a strike vote, there is no TA nor a final offer to vote on.
 
The IAM doesnt take non-binding strike votes.
 
And timmie you are being dishonest again.
 

Q: Will the forming of the Association impact the current IAM-US Airways negotiations?
 
A: No. The IAM will continue bargaining with US Airways for its current members at the stand-alone carrier until the National Mediation Board determines US Airways and American Airlines are operating as a single carrier. The IAM’s position is that US Airways must fulfill its bargaining responsibilities with the IAM before joint negotiations begin.
 

 

[mike33]

Actually, that's a very good question. The problem isn't that anyone is wrong to ask for a release, but that there has been a complete reliance on the NMB and the whole image of negotiations is 'release'. That isn't to say that we can't get lucky at some point with a release, but relying on a 'crap shoot' alone isn't the sorta thing that can get us out of this stall.  Keeping this thing on ice for two months, then hitting 'spin cycle' again isn't the answer either.  A release itself becomes a confirmed impossibility after June.
 

  I like the way you preface and then answer your own questions !....  I don't care if you are josh or not . I care about the so-matter-of-fact of your approach.
 
  Ain't buying it ....

 

[P. REZ]

Actually, that's a very good question. The problem isn't that anyone is wrong to ask for a release, but that there has been a complete reliance on the NMB and the whole image of negotiations is 'release'. That isn't to say that we can't get lucky at some point with a release, but relying on a 'crap shoot' alone isn't the sorta thing that can get us out of this stall.  Keeping this thing on ice for two months, then hitting 'spin cycle' again isn't the answer either.  A release itself becomes a confirmed impossibility after June.
 
Simply put, the leadership does not have the authority of the membership for the things it is speaking on behalf of the membership on, so the company is calling BS.  The membership hasn't taken a strike vote, in fact the membership really doesn't even have any idea what they would be striking for.  The leadership has intent to keep the membership ignorant about the proposals and I believe that is misguided and brings unnecessary risk and ignorance.  
 
I can't speak for the current leadership, but moving forward, the plan must incorporate informing the membership of the company's ridiculous proposal and asking for a strike vote and a rejection so that the leadership can have the total confidence, consent,  and authority of the membership.  It's called membership consent.   Both the NMB and Management have to see this. We might as well get this out of the way because sooner or later the membership must consent.
 
That doesn't mean that Parker will just roll over. No doubt he is taking the IAM at its word when the IAM said it will only negotiate stand alone talks until a single carrier.  But Parker's stonewall tactics have risk as well and could put this merger on stall as well.  He needs the merger to move forward, and that gives the union 'merger leverage' so that it doesn't have to sign some ridiculous contract.  Assumed in any strategy is the ongoing support from the TWU in stand alone talks, including post single carrier.  Easier said than done but it's workable for fleet service. 
 
MX may be a different story since the Association has real pressures from AMFA which promises a petition in August as current TWU MX are signing up.  Remember what I said about single carrier and September?  So we should not be surprised of AMFA's target date.  Again, fleet service appears insulated from the mess of a raid. Unfortunately, for our MX members, AMFA isn't helping matters in negotiations.
 
Truncating all of this, we need membership consent, and we need to keep the support strong from the TWU leadership.  The Association can not be compromised and we can't risk losing it. If we lose the Association, then our seniority is up for grabs and you can tack on another 12 months to any process.

Tim,
 
The Company is offering substantially less than what AA currently makes and as of September of this year there would be even more of a gap. Nothing else is being offered. September 2015 we would be as much as $2 behind AA or more depending on what the average of UA, DL and US is. When you factor in inflation from our last raise and moving forward the membership would be taking a pay cut. I have been briefing this in breakrooms. Unacceptable offer from DP.
  
 
P. Rez

 

[ograc]

Tim,
 
The Company is offering substantially less than what AA currently makes and as of September of this year there would be even more of a gap. Nothing else is being offered. September 2015 we would be as much as $2 behind AA or more depending on what the average of UA, DL and US is. When you factor in inflation from our last raise and moving forward the membership would be taking a pay cut. I have been briefing this in breakrooms. Unacceptable offer from DP.
  
 
P. Rez

P. Rez,
Here we go again... discussing only the hourly wage being proposed. I'm sure you would agree there is more to contract proposals other than hourly wage. What has been offered concerning scope/job protection, part time ratios, vacation/sick time accrual, pension contribution improvements, early out and retro? When you speak only of hourly wage and state "nothing else is being offered" are we to believe there has been no offer or proposed improvements to any of the other economic issues? You may be briefing members in the breakrooms in PHX but a lot of members, systemwide, remain in the dark and uninformed concerning the company's proposals. Why? 

 

[700UW]

You do realize the company is giving them a new offer when they meet at the NMB offices?

 

[ograc]

You do realize the company is giving them a new offer when they meet at the NMB offices?

Yes. But as of now we don't know what the old offer was.My guess is it was a POS, not only concerning wage, but everything else. But then how are we to know?

 

[700UW]

I know they held informational meetings last summer, did you not attend one?

 

[ograc]

I know they held informational meetings last summer, did you not attend one?

I did. They would not discuss specifics on the table from either side. Believe me 700; I've been through this drill before. 34 years and an engaged / active member since Teamster representation in the 4 cities at sUSAir. 

 

[P. REZ]

P. Rez,
Here we go again... discussing only the hourly wage being proposed. I'm sure you would agree there is more to contract proposals other than hourly wage. What has been offered concerning scope/job protection, part time ratios, vacation/sick time accrual, pension contribution improvements, early out and retro? When you speak only of hourly wage and state "nothing else is being offered" are we to believe there has been no offer or proposed improvements to any of the other economic issues? You may be briefing members in the breakrooms in PHX but a lot of members, systemwide, remain in the dark and uninformed concerning the company's proposals. Why? 

Ograc,
 
They are offering nothing else bro. It is a POS offer and we will have to see if anything changes next week.
 
P. Rez

 

[Jester]

PRez,
 
As I was there, did you attend the Parker Dog and Pony show in PHX last week in disguise?  I am glad that one of the MX on the 142 NC called Parker out for not bargaining in good faith, but frankly, I would have liked to have seen you openly question Parker's claim in how he has offered slightly more than what AA has now.  Therein lies the rub... you claim Management is offering $2 less, Parker claims he is offering more... as far as I am concerned, it was a missed opportunity to set the record straight with a quick summary of proposals and rally the Members as to possibility of a strike.

 

[P. REZ]

PRez,
 
As I was there, did you attend the Parker Dog and Pony show in PHX last week in disguise?  I am glad that one of the MX on the 142 NC called Parker out for not bargaining in good faith, but frankly, I would have liked to have seen you openly question Parker's claim in how he has offered slightly more than what AA has now.  Therein lies the rub... you claim Management is offering $2 less, Parker claims he is offering more... as far as I am concerned, it was a missed opportunity to set the record straight with a quick summary of proposals and rally the Members as to possibility of a strike.

Jester,
 
I showed up at 2 but Doug was 30 minutes late. I had several things I was going to confront him on but because he was late I had to leave to catch a 315 flight to ORD. 
 
P. Rez

 

[rockit2]

You do realize the company is giving them a new offer when they meet at the NMB offices?

How do you know that?

 

[rockit2]

Jester,
 
I showed up at 2 but Doug was 30 minutes late. I had several things I was going to confront him on but because he was late I had to leave to catch a 315 flight to ORD. 
 
P. Rez

Didn't want to miss the surf snd turf with Delaney, eh. Don't worry,if my sixty bucks a month won't cover it you guy's can raise my dues (AGAIN).

 

[Rook]

P. Rez,
I agree with Ograc about not knowing what esle ?
You say bro that AH is only offering pay so, are you saying that you have came to terms with the other 5 issues and that pay is the only thing thats holding this up for the membership to see?
We got yours and the rest of the NC back but, after 2 + years we need to know some more.