2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[Tim Nelson]

And that to me is where the leaders come in...not to endorse and then blame the membership for voting in a piece of crap. Just inform the members of every article, answer any questions, and then let them decide!
 
Good luck guys/gals

Our bylaws say a recommendation to endorse or reject is needed.  Not sure how the TWU does but the IAM is more democratic.  The IAM never could just wipe out a profit sharing plan without a vote.

 

[ograc]

I agree with everything you said.
I can tell you that I have given my word to explain any T/A to the agents in detail.
However no matter how long you take, and how well it's explained, we won't be able to hit everyone. So like Roa said. People need to commit some time to read it, so that questions can be raised. This is how it needs to be whenever a T/a comes out.

Granted. You as a team will not be able to hit everyone, however, the challenge will be to get the membership to review the entire agreement. Not just the hourly compensation Article. IMO... the leadership's responsibility is to present the agreement as a whole. Likewise, the membership's responsibility is to view and consider the agreement as a whole. A CBA, should be considered, and subsequently voted on in it's entirety. What good is an hourly wage increase if one year from now you are bearing the cost of commuting to save your job or you're forced to seperate from the company? I would hope, based on history, both parties handle the process better. The District allowing more time to inform and answer questions and the membership reviewing and considering the long term consequences of Every Article of the agreement. Let's not repeat past mistakes at UA. All of this may be premature. We are not yet at a TA. Matter of fact; things could go south next week. Then we'll be discussing other issues.    

 

[700UW]

SHOW US THE TA $$$. WE the Members @ LCC will VOTE ! CONGRATULATIONS ! IAMAW President Buffenbarger from not being CRONKED ! Fish On !

There is no TA.

 

[charlie Brown]

Granted. You as a team will not be able to hit everyone, however, the challenge will be to get the membership to review the entire agreement. Not just the hourly compensation Article. IMO... the leadership's responsibility is to present the agreement as a whole. Likewise, the membership's responsibility is to view and consider the agreement as a whole. A CBA, should be considered, and subsequently voted on in it's entirety. What good is an hourly wage increase if one year from now you are bearing the cost of commuting to save your job or you're forced to seperate from the company? I would hope, based on history, both parties handle the process better. The District allowing more time to inform and answer questions and the membership reviewing and considering the long term consequences of Every Article of the agreement. Let's not repeat past mistakes at UA. All of this may be premature. We are not yet at a TA. Matter of fact; things could go south next week. Then we'll be discussing other issues.

I'm not talking about next week. The points your making, will ring true whenever the time comes to discuss and explain a t/a.

 

[jet job]

Change will be exciting! We are determined to bring the grievance reports to the membership instead of cutting deals and "not telling you' about grievances. Gs just withdrew dozens more grievances last week without anyones consent or knowledge until management informed a few key people.
This whole idea of waiving off time limits as the norm and burying grievances in the wasteland is a disgrace although i hear rezler and mariorano are better than the rest about this.

Spouting off again nelson, come June you will get crushed again. Your contract knowledge is limited at best. You have lost more credibility than anyone I have ever read about. I suggest you get a few labor classes under your belt. Your problem is you shoot from the hip and flap your lip without engaging your brain. I wish my brothers at USA nothing but success. Nelson has set the labor movement back with his constant lies and purpose driven ego too long. His team is already splitting at the welds. Nelson go call Hoffa and go on another cruise like you did in 2011, you deserter

 

[P. REZ]

I agree with everything you said.
I can tell you that I have given my word to explain any T/A to the agents in detail.
However no matter how long you take, and how well it's explained, we won't be able to hit everyone. So like Roa said. People need to commit some time to read it, so that questions can be raised. This is how it needs to be whenever a T/a comes out.

I also concur with CB that the contract needs to be explained and the members should read it in its entirety. I want to add that it is a positive that we are going back to D.C. next week but by no means does it mean we will come back with good news.  
 
P. Rez

 

[ChockJockey]

For more interesting facts not fiction go to http://u4c.info

 
I don't have much interest or enthusiasm for Tim's slate, but I have to say that the altered biographies you've posted on this spoof site are pretty distasteful, and that purposefully misrepresenting others in their own name proves outright a dishonest nature and a dishonest intent.  This is especially so - and quite accurately called cowardly - when the author hides behind anonymity, or will until July 1st when it won't make any difference.
 
Personally, if it were my job to do these things, or if it were my pleasure, to willfully distort the lives and careers of others by using careful omissions, demeaning additions, intentional mis-spellings, etc., post them online under their names for the sole purpose of deceiving the membership, then I would hope I'd have the good sense at the end of the day to brush my teeth a .38, because it's trashy, soul-corrupting, gutter politics at its worst, and those who practice it simply cannot be taken seriously when they claim to have the membership's best interests at heart.
 
I suspect there will be those who'll give me the red arrow for even daring discuss and criticize the oafish hacks in the apparent employ of the union I pay dues to and the depths they stoop but it needs being said.  When people see that, and the name calling, and the sh*t-talking (on all sides) it only justifies their complacency in union process and politics, and it makes me wonder if that isn't the intent in the first place.

 

[cltrat]

 
I don't have much interest or enthusiasm for Tim's slate, but I have to say that the altered biographies you've posted on this spoof site are pretty distasteful, and that purposefully misrepresenting others in their own name proves outright a dishonest nature and a dishonest intent.  This is especially so - and quite accurately called cowardly - when the author hides behind anonymity, or will until July 1st when it won't make any difference.
 
Personally, if it were my job to do these things, or if it were my pleasure, to willfully distort the lives and careers of others by using careful omissions, demeaning additions, intentional mis-spellings, etc., post them online under their names for the sole purpose of deceiving the membership, then I would hope I'd have the good sense at the end of the day to brush my teeth a .38, because it's trashy, soul-corrupting, gutter politics at its worst, and those who practice it simply cannot be taken seriously when they claim to have the membership's best interests at heart.
 
I suspect there will be those who'll give me the red arrow for even daring discuss and criticize the oafish hacks in the apparent employ of the union I pay dues to and the depths they stoop but it needs being said.  When people see that, and the name calling, and the sh*t-talking (on all sides) it only justifies their complacency in union process and politics, and it makes me wonder if that isn't the intent in the first place.

+1000 Chock

 

[Tim Nelson]

Spouting off again nelson, come June you will get crushed again. Your contract knowledge is limited at best. You have lost more credibility than anyone I have ever read about. I suggest you get a few labor classes under your belt. Your problem is you shoot from the hip and flap your lip without engaging your brain. I wish my brothers at USA nothing but success. Nelson has set the labor movement back with his constant lies and purpose driven ego too long. His team is already splitting at the welds. Nelson go call Hoffa and go on another cruise like you did in 2011, you deserter

Everyone on our ticket received there home nomination of all locals reporting.  That's credibility.  Your team had 14 out of 15 of your candidates at United not even have the credibility to gain their home local endorsement, and many of your candidates, Gardner, Bartz, Rivera finished dead last at their own local.  If we don't completely dominate the top hubs at United I will be upset.   I was glad that Mr Delaney finally admitted he will retire if change happens.  I really hope he considers retirement and collects his watch because the new eboard isn't going to put up with his white collar goofy geek ass. 
 
I'm not sure what kind of knowledge you are talking about since the many years of experience that your ticket has in getting its collective ass handed to it by management is an all time record.  Your US AIRWAYS candidates screwed us in the 2008 agreement,  your United candidates screwed the UAL members super bad with the UAL agreement.   And poor HAL got hosed by every one of your candidates.  In 6 years, you guys did nothing but F everything up everywhere.  What have you done for US AIRWAYS members, since you guys brought back the 2008 US AIRWAYS contract? 
 
I'm waiting for an answer on that one.
 
As an aside, I was very excited to hear the news that Mr Delaney will retire if U4C wins!

 

[Tim Nelson]

Jet Job,  can you explain the new United Airline attendance policy for us?  It was truly a shame when Delaney flipped and refused to arbitrate the US AIRWAYS attendance policy in 2009 like he said he would.   Now, the United policy just keeps getting worse as well.  Let's make the October convention a retirement for Mr Delaney. You guys are absolutely terrible and haven't done a damn thing in 6 years other than F up US AIRWAYS 2008 contract and F up the United contract.  June can't come fast enough.  Hey, you guys are so bad that the membership is telling us not to bother campaigning against you clowns. Just terrible.

 

[UnitedWeStand]

unitedwestand..  AA tops out at 22.57  now and in sept they go up to 23.00 

 
Correct me if I'm wrong but page 7 of the MOU Exhibit A pay chart shows a top out of $24.47.
 
Should that not be what we are shooting for as a starting point?
 
Why should we be accepting any less than what our total package was prior to the bankruptcy cycle. Read the '99 Agreement. We haven't had section 6 negotiations since that agreement 15 years ago. Since then, the Company has methodically and deliberately stripped us of everything. That agreement should have been our negotiating base line.

 

[mike33]

 
Correct me if I'm wrong but page 7 of the MOU Exhibit A pay chart shows a top out of $24.47.
 
Should that not be what we are shooting for as a starting point?
 
Why should we be accepting any less than what our total package was prior to the bankruptcy cycle. Read the '99 Agreement. We haven't had section 6 negotiations since that agreement 15 years ago. Since then, the Company has methodically and deliberately stripped us of everything. That agreement should have been our negotiating base line.

That is for 2017 Topout. Yes the structure should include that in a new CBA chart, but not to start.( unless i misread you) 
Now JCBA is different. Anything is possible then....
 
   We at US should have a baseline from the 99 agreement yes, but remember that the scenario gets diluted when merging with a BK carrier. I'm not saying  i agree with it but it would be a different story if AA never went into BK. Although the savings AA accomplished during BK is partly whats driving the merger.
  Thats why the US sec 6 is so important. it's a chance to get all you can back because we are not in BK. The company will try to dilute that agreement once we enter JCBA talks. It is very important for the AA TWU to support us in whatever way possible if released. It only helps them in JCBA talks. I know they don't have a strike sympathy clause in their contract but there are other ways when the time comes if it does.

 

[Tim Nelson]

That is for 2017 Topout. Yes the structure should include that in a new CBA chart, but not to start. 
Now JCBA is different. Anything is possible then....

You are joking, right?
 
I highly expect that whatever stand alone contract is attained before joint talks, that it have future raises higher than the low wages in the sAA bankrupt agreement.  The fact, is that the contention of September 2015 has grounded management's desire to bring our members up to sAA wages now, but there should be no contention of management to restrict our members wages regarding post September 2015 pay parity which WON"T affect sAA until after a joint agreement.   I have no idea where you, Roabily, and your kind of thinking, gets this inferior mentality to suggest that any stand alone wage structure should contain the #### wages post September 2015.    And I highly doubt that many sAA workers are satisfied with their future 2% raises when the vast majority of ramp workers in this industry are ALREADY over $24 top out when you include compensation only.  Earth to Mike,  tens of thousands of ramp workers in this industry CURRENTLY work under compensation rules of Post $24!!!    Wake up!    The only fallback that some may be willing to settle for less wages on is if scope was dramatically enhanced.  But the NC is not proposing to enhance scope at all, rather to just keep things on spin cycle.

 

[mike33]

You are joking, right?
 
 

Funny how you expect $23.00 parity at least with AA in sept and now say we should start at $24.47.  I wish the same for sure but am being realistic. Stop trying to make election points by flip flopping.... He was saying it should be a starting point..........
 
  No idea how ROA got involved in this. 

 

[mike33]

You are joking, right?
 
 
 

  And mister politics...please include the whole quote. You left out a few important words.  I did say " unless i misread you"