2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[Tim Nelson]

So you won't honor the US members and let their voice be heard if they speak by their vote that they don't want you?? And Tim most of the UA people that support you, don't know you, and the ones that do, would sale their sole to the devil for a position. The UA people will eventually come around like most of the US people that knows you have done. In fact since you think it's important for people to see what their own think of them. Maybe your UA fans should check out the US cities and how they vote for you.

That's not true, most, if not all United members know me because I have been engaged with their organizing drives and helped fight against the contract you endorsed.  But they certainly don't know you.  I was one of only 3 AGC candidates [out of 24] that secured nominations of all 7 hubs at United.  I love my team and it's a great team to be proud of, at any rate, the only way anyone wins these type of elections is because of teammates. I think the US AIRWAYS folks have been coming around but they will come around more when you bring back a contract that we both know you are capable of.

 

[charlie Brown]

I answered your question already about those who hypothetically may vote against me.  I'll honor the vote of the membership count and take those who voted against me as a challenge to prove my worth to them over the term of the office.
No, our whole ticket loses votes by putting up a small town guy against you.  And we put up another small town guy against Miller.  BOS does like Miller but most everyone in CLT voted against him in 2008 because he brought back that sorry 2008 agreement.  Not sure why we would expect him to change unless he learned from the error of his ways.
 
I have a great deal of respect for the two other US AIRWAYS candidates on the team I'm on. They aren't the sorta guys who needed titles or took any credit but you can use that against them if you want.  They have the respect of their stations and Artie was endorsed by his own people unlike most of your team members.  Carl has helped out numerous members with grievances and other situations over 30 years but hasn't taken any credit or titles for it.  He is more of a stand up guy than your whole ticket and certainly he has a helluva lot more integrity than you or Miller endorsing that ridiculous United contract.  He would have got his nomination in PHL as well if the Local didn't screw up the whole night and scrap the nomination.   In fact, we need to get rid of Gill.  Not only because he already burned us once on that 2008 contract, but he has absolutely no control over that PHL local.  They have to redo everything all the time. They can't even handle a Local election.  It's a mess.  
 
And, even more important than above, in fact, incredibly important, the two US AIRWAYS candidates running against your United candidates are not management ass kissers.  Your candidates are WAY TOO CLOSE to management!  Warning Will Robinson!!!!!

You keep talking about how your guys are nice guys!!! Yes yes yes! I agree they are stand up guys. But they are getting in way over their head. Not saying they don't deserve a union position since their members support them. But not a AGC position. You even admit 2008 was a mistake for some of the AGC,s that didn't have experience. Now your on here campaigning about the mess we are digging out of because of some of them. And speaking of Gill and Miller endorsing our 2008 agreement. They brought out T/a 1. Care to bring that one out and let the members see it, and what we now would be snapped back to. They would be telling Miller and Gill, great job right now. And we wouldn't be negotiating trying to get things back now, that we would have already snapped back to. That is if Miller and Gill had their way.

 

[Tim Nelson]

You keep talking about how your guys are nice guys!!! Yes yes yes! I agree they are stand up guys. But they are getting in way over their head. Not saying they don't deserve a union position since their members support them. But not a AGC position. You even admit 2008 was a mistake for some of the AGC,s that didn't have experience. Now your on here campaigning about the mess we are digging out of because of some of them. And speaking of Gill and Miller endorsing our 2008 agreement. They brought out T/a 1. Care to bring that one out and let the members see it, and what we now would be snapped back to. They would be telling Miller and Gill, great job right now. And we wouldn't be negotiating trying to get things back now, that we would have already snapped back to. That is if Miller and Gill had their way.

TA1 and TA2 both were inadequate. Neither I or any east coast Hub approved either of those. And Canale saw a quick exit due to that.  TA2 did get the 60 day rule out but it was still lousy.  But you know that because you campaigned against that, right?  As well you should have.   As far as TA1, it was Jeff Hayden from PHL.   Miller backed both of them of course and also backed the United TA.  Knowing Miller's record endorsing contracts, why would anyone vote for him?
 
In fact, can we just cut to the chase, do you want to talk about the 3 contracts your people brought back over 6 years instead of making this personal?  The 2008 US AIRWAYS contract, the HAL, and UAL?  
 
You talk about a 100 years of total experience on your team, well, can you show us at least one contract that you guys signed over the past 6 years without destroying familes?
 
If that 100 years of experience was worth something other than keeping a seat warm [See Toronto Mayor] then I would think that you guys would have kicked our ass in nominations and wouldn't be getting your asses kicked in June.  Yes?
 
Again, instead of talking personal, let's focus on those 100 years of negotiation skill set you guys accomplished.

 

[700UW]

Also being an AGC means being on the road most of the time, how is someone going to be able to attend school full time and travel all over the system representing members?

 

[charlie Brown]

TA1 and TA2 both were inadequate. Neither I or any east coast Hub approved either of those. And Canale saw a quick exit due to that.  TA2 did get the 60 day rule out but it was still lousy.  But you know that because you campaigned against that, right?  As well you should have.   As far as TA1, it was Jeff Hayden from PHL.   Miller backed both of them of course and also backed the United TA.  Knowing Miller's record endorsing contracts, why would anyone vote for him?
 
In fact, can we just cut to the chase, do you want to talk about the 3 contracts your people brought back over 6 years instead of making this personal?  The 2008 US AIRWAYS contract, the HAL, and UAL?  
 
You talk about a 100 years of total experience on your team, well, can you show us at least one contract that you guys signed over the past 6 years without destroying familes?
 
If that 100 years of experience was worth something other than keeping a seat warm [See Toronto Mayor] then I would think that you guys would have kicked our ass in nominations and wouldn't be getting your asses kicked in June.  Yes?
 
Again, instead of talking personal, let's focus on those 100 years of negotiation skill set you guys accomplished.

Getting our asses kicked in June??? Opinions vary my friend. And Tim, I would be glad to talk contracts with you anytime, but in person. One of the reasons I got involved in the union was because I was always pissed in how the IAM always would spin a contract and wouldn't tell people the whole truth of the contract. So I have always swore I would give them both sides of any contract and let them make a fair decision. But just like the IAM goes to one extreme. You go the opposite way. You only want to point out the bad to get the contract rejected. Of course I know it's because of politics. But if you ever want to get together and talk where you can't spin in anyway you want? I'm fine with that. You weren't in the UA talks. Neither was I. But I have talked to several that was. The blood bath that has happend nobody likes. But it was going to happen either way. At least the members have some protection now especially on the CO side where they had none. UA,s position in talks is a world different than where we are in ours. We're not faced with thousands of people about to lose their jobs like they were. But like I said. You don't tell anyone about that. If you want to be fair, you should tell them both sides of the story.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Getting our asses kicked in June??? Opinions vary my friend. And Tim, I would be glad to talk contracts with you anytime, but in person. One of the reasons I got involved in the union was because I was always pissed in how the IAM always would spin a contract and wouldn't tell people the whole truth of the contract. So I have always swore I would give them both sides of any contract and let them make a fair decision. But just like the IAM goes to one extreme. You go the opposite way. You only want to point out the bad to get the contract rejected. Of course I know it's because of politics. But if you ever want to get together and talk where you can't spin in anyway you want? I'm fine with that. You weren't in the UA talks. Neither was I. But I have talked to several that was. The blood bath that has happend nobody likes. But it was going to happen either way. At least the members have some protection now especially on the CO side where they had none. UA,s position in talks is a world different than where we are in ours. We're not faced with thousands of people about to lose their jobs like they were. But like I said. You don't tell anyone about that. If you want to be fair, you should tell them both sides of the story.

No. Thousands didn't lose their jobs nor were they going to if the District had hung in there.  Management usually holds off on cleansings until after a union lowers its sword and signs silly contracts.  Same thing happened with our 1999 agreement.  We lost 62 out of 82 stations after signing that contract.    Same will happen this time, mark my words, if you guys bring back a contract that exposes our stations.  Management won't whack them before, they will whack them after the signing.  That's usually how negotiations work.  Gotta keep our sword up and if I get elected I can assure the members that I sure as hell won't bring back and recommend acceptance of any contract that doesn't grandfather all of our current work.    Can you make that same pledge, Charlie Brown? 
 
One thing that should happen, moving forward, is that our members need to start seeing the damn proposals. You should also be more forthtelling to your members that the release is now toast.
 
As far as the US AIRWAYS vote,  if you bring back some dopey contract that doesn't offer all current work in scope then I'd say you won't get many votes at all anywhere. And anything less than the AMR wage would really be bizarre.  Hopefully, the future wages past 2015 are much greater than AMR since the AMR wage isn't anything to write home about.  Don't toss us into another bankrupt contract!

 

[Tim Nelson]

I gotta go Charlie Brown, nice chatting. Maybe it gave voters on both sides some perspectives.

 

[blue collar]

Hey King of the Liars, Mr Misinformation and Fraud, did I ask you?
 
Are you Tim?
 
Are you and IAM Member?
 
Do you work for US?
 
Do you work for UA?
 
Go back and make up more lies and spread hate and discontent.
 
And butt out, you are just a passenger as you claim, aka JP Morgan Fraud Enabler.
 
Unlike you I wont run to the moderators when you call me names, but if you can dish it out you better be able to take it.
 
Go to the finance boards and post there.

You're not a member of 141 are you, or even US or UA? You should be able to take the advise you give out.

 

[robbedagain]

Cb or someone. Was steve miller in bos in 99 and 00? Was he like joe mac? Talk about outstanding man big joe sure was at that time

 

[Tim Nelson]

Cb or someone. Was steve miller in bos in 99 and 00? Was he like joe mac? Talk about outstanding man big joe sure was at that time

Miller was there.  He is no Joe Mac, nobody was.  Miller isn't a management guy but he is soft.  He pretty much just wants everyone to get along.  You can thank him for the 2008 agreement, and United can thank him for endorsing their agreement.  He either is naïve to labor or simply doesn't care. Our membership removed him before when he was running with Canale.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Can anyone respond???  Any CLT members want to respond, has MF ever given you guys closeout letters? Ever?
 
1. Over the past 6 years, has any member received a closeout letter from his AGC regarding his/her grievance?
2. Over the past 6 years, has any Local Chairperson received a copy of the system quarterly grievance report?
 
Will Delaney's Team [yes we do have bylaws]   finally follow the bylaws and put together a quarterly report on all grievances at the Local Chairpersons conference? The members want to know. For reference, here is the bylaw:
Section 6. It shall be the responsibility of all Assistant General Chairmen to write close-out letters of all grievances that have been withdrawn, to Local Lodge Grievance Committee, Grievant and President/Directing General Chair.
Section 7. It shall be the responsibility of the President/Directing General Chairman to send to all Local Lodges Grievance Committee Chairmen a quarterly report from their respective agreement on all Third and Fourth Step grievances. The President/Directing General Chairman will send to all the Local Lodge Committee Chairmen within 30 days of receipt, copies of all System Board decisions

 

[charlie Brown]

Cb or someone. Was steve miller in bos in 99 and 00? Was he like joe mac? Talk about outstanding man big joe sure was at that time

I just got to know Steve when we started negotiating almost 3 years ago. I have seen and witnessed his work first hand in negotiations. I have heard Steve talk about Joe several times and how close they were. I know he learned a lot from Joe. Regardless of what other people say about him on here, I'm telling you we are very lucky to have him on our team. I'll go to battle with him any day of the week!

 

[charlie Brown]

Miller was there.  He is no Joe Mac, nobody was.  Miller isn't a management guy but he is soft.  He pretty much just wants everyone to get along.  You can thank him for the 2008 agreement, and United can thank him for endorsing their agreement.  He either is naïve to labor or simply doesn't care. Our membership removed him before when he was running with Canale.

And I'm 100% sure Joe would not agree with Tim's opinion either.

 

[700UW]

You're not a member of 141 are you, or even US or UA? You should be able to take the advise you give out.

I have been a member of 141, and I have worked for UA and US.
 
And my son's mother is still out there under the M&R.
 
And arent you at WN now?
 
Maybe you should take the advice you dish out.

 

[blue collar]

I have been a member of 141, and I have worked for UA and US.
 
And my son's mother is still out there under the M&R.
 
And arent you at WN now?
 
Maybe you should take the advice you dish out.

I am, that's why I'm not getting involved. But then again- unlike you- I don't have a hidden agenda.