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2014 Fleet Service Discussion

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roabilly said:
I've know about his particular one for a while...
 
When you cant find flesh and blood support, just invent digital support... pathetic!
You are incorrect sir. But go ahead and think I'm behind every poster on here that supports me or U4C.   As far as support, I have also refuted your argument by producing bona fide endorsements from numerous members. Kindly read them.  On the other hand, 141rising has yet to post one single endorsement.  Maybe Lehive will do some interviews on the members dime this week in FLL and maybe that is the time delay. 
 
Other People said:
What has your present leadership done for you at usair?  Tim is a fighter and offers something different instead of the same ole.  What has he done to you for you to offer nothing but insults towards him?  I have read this board for several pages and it just seems like you guys like to #### about personal personalities but haven't offered anything that Tim has done to this group, nor have you offered anything that the current leaders have done. 
 
We will carry this through at United and even though Tim is usair, we will vote for him.  He was the one guy who had the balls to stand up and take the bullets when all the usair officers on our executive board voted and endorsed our contract.  Maybe they should stop blaming Tim when they have to order their uniforms, and start blaming themselves for doing nothing other than doing whatever Delaney tells them to do.
Tim,
 
  Not buying it ! 
 
Tim Nelson said:
There isn't any slate of just United members. Both slates have the exact same amount of US AIRWAYS AGC's.  PERIOD! 
What is true is that only United airline members  [Delaney] enter negotiations while all US AIRWAYS fleet service negotiators stay in the room down the hall.  That has been true of late and prolly was true this last week as well.
 
I haven't heard how last week's negotiations went but I know that they wanted to up the scope minimums by 33% from 8 to 12 flights a day.  AH was trying to bridge this by offering a no-layoff clause so when someone gets contracted out, then at least they can move hundreds of miles and bump someone from CLT or PHL.  The union added a Cinderella date to one day prior to ammendability but AH hasn't signed off on it yet and that seems to be the holdup along with the officer election.   Fairbanks claimed that if they brought this TA back now, that he would get eaten alive in CLT.  He is correct. So the plan is to wait until the US AIRWAYS votes are in, then dress up this POS agreement and sell it on fear, telling folks if they vote it down then they will possibly have to wait years for another one.
 
The present position of the negotiation committee is nothing short of a disaster since they didn't realize that when they moved towards management by waiving off scope enhancements and AMR wages that the NMB saw that as a reason to shelve any impasse decision.  AH played them like idiots, I hate to say.
Tim,
 
I was there last week and I think you should reconsider what you are saying about details you are releasing. Obviously you know what the issues are because they have been talked about openly, so a guess here or there may be in the ball park but you are not accurate generally speaking. If there was a cba it would be out, PERIOD.
 
P. Rez   
 
P. REZ said:
Tim,
 
I was there last week and I think you should reconsider what you are saying about details you are releasing. Obviously you know what the issues are because they have been talked about openly, so a guess here or there may be in the ball park but you are not accurate generally speaking. If there was a cba it would be out, PERIOD.
 
P. Rez   
Rez
  He doesn't care what he says or if he is accurate. I have learned over the past 5 mos that all he wants is to be elected. Period. Doesn't matter if he is hurting the membership or the negotiations. He will try and fix that later if elected. It's that simple really....
 
  Watch what he comes back to remark..... heard the retoric 20 times in the last 400 pages. 
  He keeps remarking about how you guys are campaigning on the union dime. I don't know about that but for someone who posts on here 24/7 , is he here on company time?.......
 
What amazes me is why dont any of you call him out and ask him how he will get Doug, Gerry and Al do just give him everything he states he will get for Fleet.
 
700UW said:
What amazes me is why dont any of you call him out and ask him how he will get Doug, Gerry and Al do just give him everything he states he will get for Fleet.
Because we all know he can't do any better... it's for politics
 
Tim,  lets say you (hypotheticallly speaking) get elected along with the UA folks, How will you force good ole uncle donkey and aunt parker to get FSA  and or MTR both PMUS fair and equitable contracts?  Also  the outstanding grievances, mine included?   I just dont see it happening like that  esp given how long it has been for both    Unless there a magic wand somewhere lying around that can help   but the company is the problem as I see it right now
 
P. REZ said:
Tim,
 
I was there last week and I think you should reconsider what you are saying about details you are releasing. Obviously you know what the issues are because they have been talked about openly, so a guess here or there may be in the ball park but you are not accurate generally speaking. If there was a cba it would be out, PERIOD.
 
P. Rez   
Me and you both know. BTW, were you in the room this time or did Delaney send your ass down the hall again with the other US AIRWAYS negotiators?  Honestly, you don't even have first hand reports other than what Delaney tells you since you haven't been in the previous negotiations.  You guys should quit playing cards and watching the tube down the hall and unify and tell Delaney that you should all be in the room.  Grant you that I don't have the info on what happened this time but I know it had something to do with 10 more stations getting potentially whacked and you guys entertaining bullshit 'no layoff' clauses instead of sticking to your guns.   Hey, maybe you guys listened to me again because when I ripped on you guys for keeping your fingers in your asses for not demanding a US AIRWAYS ramper in the negotiating room, maybe you guys finally huddled up and demanded that a couple of you be put in the room.  Cripes, what was so hard about that?  
 
At any rate, I am 100% right about the  extra week of vacation at 25 years but no more vacation for any other member.  That your bullshit wage scale is graduated so that it F our members that aren't topped out and doesn't apply the same top out increase along all lines.  Oh boy, you did agree on the $1.50 lead pay.  Whoopie!     And time will tell if that 'cost neutral' health care tweaks is really cost neutral.  Wiki said he will call me this weekend with an update, until then, I'll listen to him over you Pat.  He is much more credible.  You better get your uniform order ready.
 
What is another shame is you guys packaging this thing up and selling it as "It is the best we could do but if you vote it down, another TA may not come for years."   Wiki said the TA was all but done but Fairbanks was afraid he would get his ass handed to him in CLT if they brought it back with the wage installment plan.   I'll withhold judgement on last week's negotiations until  Wiki contacts me about the latest fiasco.
 
robbedagain said:
Tim,  lets say you (hypotheticallly speaking) get elected along with the UA folks, How will you force good ole uncle donkey and aunt parker to get FSA  and or MTR both PMUS fair and equitable contracts?  Also  the outstanding grievances, mine included?   I just dont see it happening like that  esp given how long it has been for both    Unless there a magic wand somewhere lying around that can help   but the company is the problem as I see it right now
Actually, your grievance is a problem with the union.  I think all of us have told you that 5+ years means you are being played.  You are a pretty nice fella though.  Keep your grievance in FO's hands then.
 
There is something called a contract, but the norm is for the union to run to AH and get him to waive the time limits.  The contract says that time limits can not be waived except with mutual consent from management.  Who do you think the union runs to to waive the time limits?  Yep, Ole AH.
 
Immediately, if there is change, you will finally have representation that has the norm being time limits, and if they are waived, they will be waived with the members consent and by keeping the member fully informed.  That's not happening guys.  It simply isn't happening now.  Again, if any grievance has its time limit waived, then I will make sure the member is fully informed and get his consent prior to me making that decision. 
 
Presently, these guys do whatever they want.  They withdraw grievances without telling anyone. Extend grievances for years, and once grievances leave a station, the current AGC's are useless as most of those grievances disappear forever.  The best luck is to settle a grievance in the station.  As much as AH has clobbered these guys, he is not above the contract.  There needs to be better contract enforcement.  Other unions do it, so should we.  And all grievances must be reported as per our bylaws, but the AGC's don't even bother with that as well.  Which leads me to a question, i.e., exactly what the hell have they done for 6 years?  You want to vote for them robbed, I guess nobody can stop you, but you will only be voting to keep the same bullshit toxic environment going.  Someone prove me wrong????
You above all people are getting F over worse than all of us but I have learned that the more someone gets hammered, the more they submit. 
 
As far as me forcing a fair contract, I really wish I could but I can't.  The question is, will AH be able to force me to endorse or negotiate a bullshitty contract with my signature.  The answer to that question is HELL NO.  That is a HUGE difference from the softees that YOU already have in office that HAVE already been pushed over in 2008 by ole AH, and again with United.  So, let me understand this, you want to swallow the same bullshitters again?
 
BTW, I believe a contract proposal should come out, regardless of how I think.  The bylaws allow the NC to issue a recommendation to reject or accept.  If the contract is not acceptable then I will push for it to come out and recommend a rejection.  I think the members need to see the damn thing and vote on it, and I think the leadership should follow the bylaw and issue a rejection or acceptance recommendation.  Then, and only then, will the NC have the membership consent to go in and ask for more.  But I think it is fundamentally wrong for Prez or Charlie brown to say that "I'm not going to bring Nuttn out unless I think it is good".   That's a shame.  Again,  just because I think something may be unfair doesn't mean that the majority of members do.  This is a FUNDAMENTAL break between me and the paternalistic "Daddy knows best" attitude of the present morons.
Don't forget, you already know what you have with these clowns.  Smell the current toxic environment that they have FAILED in 6 years to change.   And someone the softees from the 2008 negotiating team who HAMMERED us once are now begging you to vote for them and claim they have learned from the error of their ways?  
 
 If you want to continue that, then please do vote for these idiots.  If not, then vote for change.  That's what this comes down to. 

 
 
I was just curious how you could move outstanding grievances such as mine along faster  I do realize it is a contract thing  and to be honest with you  the arb scheduling hearing i feel shld of been held given that FO did take it to ARB but if and only if I was a betting person, I would actually bet my hearing most likely wont be scheduled or if it is probably in about 5 yrs time at the rate we've been waiting.   🙂
 
as for the contract  I see AH as the biggest obstacle to getting a deal done..  I for one think its well beyond time for that old fart to go   get lost   his services have been a complete disaster  
 
Tim Nelson said:
It is true that a primary is different than an election, primary nominations endorsements are quite telling in at least 2 ways.
 
1. They tell us about a candidate.  A candidate who can't get his own home endorsement from his home local, and those that know him best, should be noted to the entire membership. 
 
2. Although none of us can be absolutely certain how this election will turn out,  the slate that won at least 5 out of 7 United hubs has always won.  In this case, unifiedforchange has won 7 out of 7 United hubs, and in dominating fashion.  The nomination per capita of unifiedforchange represented 86% of the membership, the highest on record.   Of course, it still comes down to getting out the vote.
Again. Don't read too much into nomination endorsements Tim. "The slate that won at least 5 of the 7 United hubs has always won." Based on this quote; it is quite apparent what your election strategy is. Ride the coat tails of the anticipated dissention vote on the UA side in order to get elected as a US AGC. Your true intentions, are not in the best interests of the US membership, but in your own political ambitions. Give up 2 EBoard positions to UA, surround yourself with two "popular" US candidates from big stations who have the potential of gaining votes on the US side, and you're as good as in. You better hope for a huge turnout at UA because I believe the majority of US members see right through your agenda. Your an effective politician; who's only interest is self centered. I have two sons serving in the military. Their opinion of politicians are not very favorable. Politicians are great at making hollow promises and second guessing current leadership. Politicians have no idea how to effectively lead and direct. They have no idea what it takes to gain the respect of the "grunts" in the trenches. Other than advancing your own political agenda; how are you spending your time this Memorial Day?    
 
ograc said:
Again. Don't read too much into nomination endorsements Tim. "The slate that won at least 5 of the 7 United hubs has always won." Based on this quote; it is quite apparent what your election strategy is. Ride the coat tails of the anticipated dissention vote on the UA side in order to get elected as a US AGC. Your true intentions, are not in the best interests of the US membership, but in your own political ambitions. Give up 2 EBoard positions to UA, surround yourself with two "popular" US candidates from big stations who have the potential of gaining votes on the US side, and you're as good as in. You better hope for a huge turnout at UA because I believe the majority of US members see right through your agenda. Your an effective politician; who's only interest is self centered. I have two sons serving in the military. Their opinion of politicians are not very favorable. Politicians are great at making hollow promises and second guessing current leadership. Politicians have no idea how to effectively lead and direct. They have no idea what it takes to gain the respect of the "grunts" in the trenches. Other than advancing your own political agenda; how are you spending your time this Memorial Day?    
That's absurd. I'm sorry you didn't make it on the ballot this time ograc.  Less than two years ago you were claiming Team Delaney wasn't the answer but now since you didn't become a candidate you have selfishly decided to flip again.
At any rate, nobody is resting on nominations. We fully plan on kicking the incumbents ass for the benefit of both United members and US AIRWAYS members.  I just disagree with you,  tossing more chips on the table with a terribly losing hand and a toxic environment isn't the choice I was comfortable with.  You are.  The membership will decide this and I'm fairly confident in some strong US AIRWAYS support as well.  US AIRWAYS members are sick and tired of all the bullshit and 6 years of strike outs from the same stink US AIRWAYS candidates that brought us the nasty ass 2008 contract.   Unfortunately, I don't have the resources to properly inform everyone that the guys you support are the same clowns who negotiated the 2008 agreement.   Sorry, Ograc, but how do they say, "Once bitten.....
 
US AIRWAYS members are sick and tired of NOTHING from these bums.  They had their chance, now it's time for them to get the hell out of the way!!!!!!!!
 
Tim Nelson said:
That's absurd. I'm sorry you didn't make it on the ballot this time ograc.  Less than two years ago you were claiming Team Delaney wasn't the answer but now since you didn't become a candidate you have selfishly decided to flip again.
At any rate, nobody is resting on nominations. We fully plan on kicking the incumbents ass for the benefit of both United members and US AIRWAYS members.  I just disagree with you,  tossing more chips on the table with a terribly losing hand and a toxic environment isn't the choice I was comfortable with.  You are.  The membership will decide this and I'm fairly confident in some strong US AIRWAYS support as well.  US AIRWAYS members are sick and tired of all the bullshit and 6 years of strike outs from the same stink US AIRWAYS candidates that brought us the nasty ass 2008 contract.   Unfortunately, I don't have the resources to properly inform everyone that the guys you support are the same clowns who negotiated the 2008 agreement.   Sorry, Ograc, but how do they say, "Once bitten.....
 
US AIRWAYS members are sick and tired of NOTHING from these bums.  They had their chance, now it's time for them to get the hell out of the way!!!!!!!!
I would expect nothing less than a "that's absurd" response from you. Fact is, since 2008 ageement, this is our first opportunity to improve working conditions with a new Section 6 CBA. Fact is, before an agreement has been even reached, you want the membership to believe the NC is selling us out. You base this on opinion and so called leaks from your sources in contract negotiations. Without factual evidence to support your allegations I regard your opinions and allegations to be politically motivated. I may not agree with, or support positions this district leadership has taken, but please don't apologize to me for not being asked to be part of your UNFC opposition slate. If asked; I would have respectfully declined being part of a team, especially on the US side, who sought election based on the dissention of the UA members. Two years ago, when the membership decided on their choice of leadership; I reached out to the winning candidates and promised my support for the good of the membership. It's called character, honor and virtue. I did this based on the memberships' choice. There is indeed a fundamental difference between you and I. 
 
Tim Nelson said:
That's absurd. I'm sorry you didn't make it on the ballot this time ograc.  Less than two years ago you were claiming Team Delaney wasn't the answer but now since you didn't become a candidate you have selfishly decided to flip again.
At any rate, nobody is resting on nominations. We fully plan on kicking the incumbents ass for the benefit of both United members and US AIRWAYS members.  I just disagree with you,  tossing more chips on the table with a terribly losing hand and a toxic environment isn't the choice I was comfortable with.  You are.  The membership will decide this and I'm fairly confident in some strong US AIRWAYS support as well.  US AIRWAYS members are sick and tired of all the bullshit and 6 years of strike outs from the same stink US AIRWAYS candidates that brought us the nasty ass 2008 contract.   Unfortunately, I don't have the resources to properly inform everyone that the guys you support are the same clowns who negotiated the 2008 agreement.   Sorry, Ograc, but how do they say, "Once bitten.....
 
US AIRWAYS members are sick and tired of NOTHING from these bums.  They had their chance, now it's time for them to get the hell out of the way!!!!!!!!
Says who ???????????????  You?????????  Most of us think you are full of political rhetoric..  You could have done good things for our US membership, but you decided to do what you think is right.. We are in section 6 and that doesn't happen very often. You could have bolstered this thing to new heights, but you chose the other road. This was about how to springboard this neg to the next level this was only about an Election for you.   
 
  Save us from ourselves........ Paalleeaaase !
 
 
tim,

Please stop BSing here. While you are correct that there are 3 AGC's running for positions on both slates, please kindly remeber to also include that on the unifiedforchange slate, it takes away 2 EBoard spots away from US, spots that US currently has, and hands them to UA folks, further outnumbering US more so than we currently are. You twist the truth and do not tell the whole story just to sell your position. Not the quality of a good leader. A good leader tell the WHOLE STORY, not what he/she only wants people to hear. So to answer your question correctly robbed, yes there are the same number of AGC's running on both slates, but the UfC slate is attempting to replace two spots on the EBoard with UA people, spots that US people currently hold.
Crickets
 
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