2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[Tim Nelson]

I would expect nothing less than a "that's absurd" response from you. Fact is, since 2008 ageement, this is our first opportunity to improve working conditions with a new Section 6 CBA. Fact is, before an agreement has been even reached, you want the membership to believe the NC is selling us out. You base this on opinion and so called leaks from your sources in contract negotiations. Without factual evidence to support your allegations I regard your opinions and allegations to be politically motivated. I may not agree with, or support positions this district leadership has taken, but please don't apologize to me for not being asked to be part of your UNFC opposition slate. If asked; I would have respectfully declined being part of a team, especially on the US side, who sought election based on the dissention of the UA members. Two years ago, when the membership decided on their choice of leadership; I reached out to the winning candidates and promised my support for the good of the membership. It's called character, honor and virtue. I did this based on the memberships' choice. There is indeed a fundamental difference between you and I. 

We disagree.  Yes, I think the 2008 contract sucked and that's why we are at the industry bottom, and you think it was good.  Your boys you are voting for negotiated it so I'm not surprised you love the 2008 contract again.  Of course, less than 2 years ago, when your name was on a ballot running against them, you claimed to everyone that they were incapable.  Only after late last year when you learned you would not be placed on a ballot did you start shifting your position closer to the current officers and flip once again like a cheeseburger.   Oh yeah, that shows character. lol 
 
The reality of the situation is that regardless of who you or me support, you are selling out fleet service by supporting a team that has already signed off on the 2008 US AIRWAYS contract, endorsed the United contract, and have all but wrapped up a new contract that is worse than the previous two.   Go ahead and tell everyone how great they are for working on a wage installment plan that doesn't even take our people up to AMR wages until late 2015.  These guys couldn't even get the wage progression scale down from the 13th year to the 9th like our American brothers and sisters.  That's not right for anyone not topped out.  In fact, the wage at top out isn't the same % throughout either, and NO additional vacation for anyone without 25 years.  But you don't give a damn since you have close to 40 years.  YOu don't mind tossing the junior guys in the gutter.  You don't give a crap since you will get your retirement bridge but you have no problem supporting these dopes who also are giving up scope.   So much for your "lock and Load".
 
You and roabilly make me sick at times, talking real big and putting up your "Lock and Load' on every one of your post but now have rescinded that position.  Why?   I'll tell ya why because all the strike talk and release talk was another part of the 'movement' towards the company as your boy Fairbanks agreed to lose the media rhetoric.  Not amazingly, his pipeline was asked to stand down as well.   Roa only post "Lock and Load" when I ask him to now.
I would appreciate if you at least stop flip flopping and put up your "Lock and Load' again so we can at least know where the hell you stand at.

 

[pjirish317]

 

tim,

Please stop BSing here. While you are correct that there are 3 AGC's running for positions on both slates, please kindly remeber to also include that on the unifiedforchange slate, it takes away 2 EBoard spots away from US, spots that US currently has, and hands them to UA folks, further outnumbering US more so than we currently are. You twist the truth and do not tell the whole story just to sell your position. Not the quality of a good leader. A good leader tell the WHOLE STORY, not what he/she only wants people to hear. So to answer your question correctly robbed, yes there are the same number of AGC's running on both slates, but the UfC slate is attempting to replace two spots on the EBoard with UA people, spots that US people currently hold.

Still Crickets

 

[cltrat]

 
 
  Wiki said the TA was all but done but Fairbanks was afraid he would get his ass handed to him in CLT if they brought it back with the wage installment plan.  

if  that's true I'd say he's right, such language would cause a riot around here . Then throw in that loss of catering rumor floating around here

 

[roabilly]

What I find ironic about all this “change” rhetoric in this forum is the fact that it ALL hinges on ONE person getting elected! No mention of the TEAM concept, why are the other UFC candidates not on here posting under their real names, and bragging about what they will do?
 
Nelson is running for AGC (four year term) and we are expected to believe from this mediocre position, that he will institute dramatic change throughout the institution, simultaneously “clean house”, and force the Company into stellar agreements, thus changing the dynamic of Airline Labor forever...
 
Not to mention, he would as AGC, still answer to Delaney and he would have to follow a strict schedule to meet his responsibilities handling cases files.
 
I don’t know about all the readers here... but I’m calling Bullshit!  

 

[WeAAsles]

"Nelson is running for AGC (four year term) and we are expected to believe from this mediocre position, that he will institute dramatic change throughout the institution, simultaneously “clean house”, and force the Company into stellar agreements, thus changing the dynamic of Airline Labor forever..."


I like this one. It's disengenious for anyone to make these claims even if they were running and won the absolute top spot of any Union. When the Ed Show was on MSNBC 5 nights a week I did see that he was providing a platform for Larry Cowen and Jimmy Hoffa to get their message out. But MSNBC replaced Ed with some weenie so I'm not seeing them on TV as much anymore.

Bold grandiose claims are usually only meant to secure a position rather than actually reaching a serious fruition.

 

[P. REZ]

We disagree.  Yes, I think the 2008 contract sucked and that's why we are at the industry bottom, and you think it was good.  Your boys you are voting for negotiated it so I'm not surprised you love the 2008 contract again.  Of course, less than 2 years ago, when your name was on a ballot running against them, you claimed to everyone that they were incapable.  Only after late last year when you learned you would not be placed on a ballot did you start shifting your position closer to the current officers and flip once again like a cheeseburger.   Oh yeah, that shows character. lol 
 
The reality of the situation is that regardless of who you or me support, you are selling out fleet service by supporting a team that has already signed off on the 2008 US AIRWAYS contract, endorsed the United contract, and have all but wrapped up a new contract that is worse than the previous two.   Go ahead and tell everyone how great they are for working on a wage installment plan that doesn't even take our people up to AMR wages until late 2015.  These guys couldn't even get the wage progression scale down from the 13th year to the 9th like our American brothers and sisters.  That's not right for anyone not topped out.  In fact, the wage at top out isn't the same % throughout either, and NO additional vacation for anyone without 25 years.  But you don't give a damn since you have close to 40 years.  YOu don't mind tossing the junior guys in the gutter.  You don't give a crap since you will get your retirement bridge but you have no problem supporting these dopes who also are giving up scope.   So much for your "lock and Load".
 
You and roabilly make me sick at times, talking real big and putting up your "Lock and Load' on every one of your post but now have rescinded that position.  Why?   I'll tell ya why because all the strike talk and release talk was another part of the 'movement' towards the company as your boy Fairbanks agreed to lose the media rhetoric.  Not amazingly, his pipeline was asked to stand down as well.   Roa only post "Lock and Load" when I ask him to now.
I would appreciate if you at least stop flip flopping and put up your "Lock and Load' again so we can at least know where the hell you stand at.

Tim,
 
My first quote of you above, "We disagree", is fine because people can disagree with each other and have a spirited debate. The problem with you is the other red highlights above. What makes you think you are leadership material when you talk down to the membership? You need to calm down and talk to people. When talking about an opponent such as me etc., telling people that you differ and why is acceptable, but you like pissing everyone off with the name calling. I can't say it enough here, you are not building solidarity when you tear down the IAM and the current leadership with every word out of your mouth.
 
P. Rez

 

[P. REZ]

Members,

Regarding this talk about a ta all but done that we are afraid to bring out, total BS. Think about it for a second, TN is trying to capitalize on the fact that we may not get a ta out before the elections. If a ta was ready it would be announced and out to the membership, PERIOD.

Think about it, the NC could put out the latest best offer and could recommend a "NO" vote. Politically, putting out the last best offer with a rejection recommendation would not hurt us IMO. Your NC wants to scrap and claw for every last nickel we can get out of this Company. We are fighting for you because it is the right thing to do and this Company is fighting back. I wish everyone could be a part of a negotiation team to see the realities of what types of situations you deal with in the process.

Stay strong and don't let BS hurt our resolve to bring back what we all deserve.

P. Rez

 

[roabilly]

Members,

Regarding this talk about a ta all but done that we are afraid to bring out, total BS. Think about it for a second, TN is trying to capitalize on the fact that we may not get a ta out before the elections. If a ta was ready it would be announced and out to the membership, PERIOD.

Think about it, the NC could put out the latest best offer and could recommend a "NO" vote. Politically, putting out the last best offer with a rejection recommendation would not hurt us IMO. Your NC wants to scrap and claw for every last nickel we can get out of this Company. We are fighting for you because it is the right thing to do and this Company is fighting back. I wish everyone could be a part of a negotiation team to see the realities of what types of situations you deal with in the process.

Stay strong and don't let BS hurt our resolve to bring back what we all deserve.

P. Rez

I'm very certain that everyone here, sans the faux digital cheerleaders are fully aware of the invalidity of Nelson's political rhetoric...
 
Keep-up the good work, and stay true to the TEAM effort!

 

[ograc]

We disagree.  Yes, I think the 2008 contract sucked and that's why we are at the industry bottom, and you think it was good.  Your boys you are voting for negotiated it so I'm not surprised you love the 2008 contract again.  Of course, less than 2 years ago, when your name was on a ballot running against them, you claimed to everyone that they were incapable.  Only after late last year when you learned you would not be placed on a ballot did you start shifting your position closer to the current officers and flip once again like a cheeseburger.   Oh yeah, that shows character. lol 
 
The reality of the situation is that regardless of who you or me support, you are selling out fleet service by supporting a team that has already signed off on the 2008 US AIRWAYS contract, endorsed the United contract, and have all but wrapped up a new contract that is worse than the previous two.   Go ahead and tell everyone how great they are for working on a wage installment plan that doesn't even take our people up to AMR wages until late 2015.  These guys couldn't even get the wage progression scale down from the 13th year to the 9th like our American brothers and sisters.  That's not right for anyone not topped out.  In fact, the wage at top out isn't the same % throughout either, and NO additional vacation for anyone without 25 years.  But you don't give a damn since you have close to 40 years.  YOu don't mind tossing the junior guys in the gutter.  You don't give a crap since you will get your retirement bridge but you have no problem supporting these dopes who also are giving up scope.   So much for your "lock and Load".
 
You and roabilly make me sick at times, talking real big and putting up your "Lock and Load' on every one of your post but now have rescinded that position.  Why?   I'll tell ya why because all the strike talk and release talk was another part of the 'movement' towards the company as your boy Fairbanks agreed to lose the media rhetoric.  Not amazingly, his pipeline was asked to stand down as well.   Roa only post "Lock and Load" when I ask him to now.
I would appreciate if you at least stop flip flopping and put up your "Lock and Load' again so we can at least know where the hell you stand at.

I'm not flip flopping. I remain locked and loaded. I will wait until I have a TA in front of me to review. Then and only then will I decide wheather to accept or reject. Then and only then will I make my recommendation and opinion. In the end... every member has this democratic right. If the TA is sub par the members have the power to reject it and force the parties back to the table. In the meantime; I refuse to be distracted by, or buy into, political grandstanding, allegations, second guessing and hollow promises. I, like every other member, will decide.  

 

[Tim Nelson]

What I find ironic about all this “change” rhetoric in this forum is the fact that it ALL hinges on ONE person getting elected! No mention of the TEAM concept, why are the other UFC candidates not on here posting under their real names, and bragging about what they will do?
 
Nelson is running for AGC (four year term) and we are expected to believe from this mediocre position, that he will institute dramatic change throughout the institution, simultaneously “clean house”, and force the Company into stellar agreements, thus changing the dynamic of Airline Labor forever...
 
Not to mention, he would as AGC, still answer to Delaney and he would have to follow a strict schedule to meet his responsibilities handling cases files.
 
I don’t know about all the readers here... but I’m calling Bullshit!  

Really?  Why isn't ANY of your boys on here posting under their real name, or you?  All wimps, that's why!   BTW, on facebook ALL of our candidates are posting under their real names yet your wimpy candidates can't otherwise they would get eaten alive.  That's a fact but we are coming for them!

 

[Tim Nelson]

Members,

Regarding this talk about a ta all but done that we are afraid to bring out, total BS. Think about it for a second, TN is trying to capitalize on the fact that we may not get a ta out before the elections. If a ta was ready it would be announced and out to the membership, PERIOD.

Think about it, the NC could put out the latest best offer and could recommend a "NO" vote. Politically, putting out the last best offer with a rejection recommendation would not hurt us IMO. Your NC wants to scrap and claw for every last nickel we can get out of this Company. We are fighting for you because it is the right thing to do and this Company is fighting back. I wish everyone could be a part of a negotiation team to see the realities of what types of situations you deal with in the process.

Stay strong and don't let BS hurt our resolve to bring back what we all deserve.

P. Rez

You are so full of it, you realize that you would get eaten alive if you brought back what you guys already signed off on.  If you got just a couple things that you claimed you were fighting for, you would have brought back a TA.  But you didn't and me and you know this.  You put off for joint talks much of the things that the members wanted NOW.  You guys decided to move against increasing scope, and move against AMR immediate wages, and the NMB and AH were ecstatic and happy for the movement.  In doing so, you also screwed up any idea of a impasse or release, which is all but dead anyways as I told everyone it would be as we approached June.  Unfortunately, you and the others lied out your ass about that, and you in particular just lied about it a couple days ago claiming a release can still happen.  It can't and won't.  YOU MOVED!   Movement is the exact opposite of impasse.  You also lied to us about the 6 'sacred things' with your mythical line in the sand.  Tossing out 2 of them was a joke.  Now, placing a no-layoff clause to further accommodate Ole AH's scope giveback is another outright moronic thing.   Which is it going to be Pat?  I know the last round, you guys were trying to figure out if you would give AH the 12 flight day [98 flight week] just to get a wage bump, or you could take the other plan ole AH offered which was keep the current flight activity but give up Catering and Tower one day prior to ammendability.  That was the only hold up that I know of last week, which one did you cough up and why cough up anything at all?  

 

[Tim Nelson]

The endorsements continue to roll in for unifiedforchange.  Kindly go to unifiedforchange.org for the latest.
 
Connie Mastroianni -Customer Service- IAH/MCO

My name is Connie and I am PCE, ASA as know from us at sCO and represented by IAM District 141. I have worked in IAH and now transferred to MCO. I support with all my heart Unified for Change.

...I have met many of you in IAH, and from conversations with working to educate the sCO PCE with our past election. I have seen how many of you have been tre...ated by your own members in office now, and how unfair and cruel they have been.

What this District did alone to Terri Crandall and Stina Bland when they were IAH helping me and others learn about this UNION and educating and working DAY AND NIGHT, and always there to teach and help answers questions for the agents in IAH. This District tried everything to stop their work, and Terri Crandall continued to fight for us, with everything she had to go through with this District.

We saw at sCO, in IAH what they did to these girls and others, and we will never forget. I support Unified for Change team and every single one on this vote. I have gotten to know and trust you all. You have shown me how good and honest and how you care about everyone, even us at sCO.

I will be in MCO, as a Observer for MCO. Jimmy Kane, has asked me if I would do that for MCO, and for Jimmy I will do anything. I only wish I could also do the same for IAH, as I will do for MCO. I support all of you at UNIFIED FOR CHANGE team and my prayers are going out to you all.

 

[Tim Nelson]

As 141rising attempts to spew hate and anger at the members and U4C candidates,   The U4C team continues to point to the membership.
 
Yet another endorsement of the U4C
 
Scott Peterson - SFO - RAMP

My name is Scott Peterson and I have worked for United for the last 15 years. I have seen this union go from a strong and forceful Union to something that is non-existent. As I look at the new contract negotiate...d by 141, I am in disbelief.

I remember when they ran for office and we were told "vote us in and we will get everything you lost plus more". Then they said "you can't change leadership in mid contract talks or we will have to start all over again and we are close to a leading industry contract" .

Leading industry contract?

Well, this contract is now costing me more than ever. I am supporting the Unified For Change team. I believe that this group has our best interest at heart and will work for us and fight for us. I ask that everyone vote for them and change the Union leadership for those who will listen to us.

 

[WeAAsles]

So what date do you guys have to have your last ballot in by so other things can be discussed that aren't about political rhetoric and posturing? June ?????

 

[Tim Nelson]

So what date do you guys have to have your last ballot in by so other things can be discussed that aren't about political rhetoric and posturing? June ?????

Last week of June.  The T/A is finished but it won't come out now cuz the incumbents would get eaten alive. The only thing they had left to do was the scope but that was suppose to be conceded for a no layoff bridge. 
 
I'll recommend a rejection over the terms that we have heard but I still think that the union leadership, whether me or anyone, should bring out the proposal for a vote.  I am totally against holding the members hostage because 5 of our members claim "The proposal doesn't meet their standards".   The bylaws allow the NC to bring it out with a recommended rejection, but let the members vote on it.   If the members vote for it then on to joint talks.  If the members vote against it then it gives the NC the consent to ask for more.