2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[WeAAsles]

It may not be fleet jobs lost, closing a station is the concern, you can always transfer to a hub and keep your job.
 
" minimum of 7 mainline weekly scheduled jet departures including AA mainline jet departures UNTIL JCBA.", FROM THE HIGHLIGHT SHEET. What happens at the joint cba negotiation? You think the company won't try to increase the depts? Scope is the most expensive item in the t/a, even more than payroll.
 
I work in a small station and I am very concerned abou this.

My whole career has been getting to know people from Stations that either closed or downsized. First were the people from RDU and BNA, a friend from MEM, SAN and all of the STL and SJU people who were downsized. So many to count, all now in hubs.

I think there is a feeling among many now and even in leadership roles who are tired of Station closures. DFW is probably more people now who came from somewhere else than actually hired in there?

I personally never could understand how you guys can do it? Always worrying about being on the chopping block just doesn't work for me. But that's just my feelings.

 

[ograc]

It may not be fleet jobs lost, closing a station is the concern, you can always transfer to a hub and keep your job.
 
" minimum of 7 mainline weekly scheduled jet departures including AA mainline jet departures UNTIL JCBA.", FROM THE HIGHLIGHT SHEET. What happens at the joint cba negotiation? You think the company won't try to increase the depts? Scope is the most expensive item in the t/a, even more than payroll.
 
I work in a small station and I am very concerned abou this.

rockit2,
I share your concern. To those working in outline stations the definition of scope and job protection is language that protects the work in the station they are working. According to the highlight sheet this TA accomplishes that at least until a JCBA is reached. I do believe, however, the company will continue to come after jobs in JCBA talks. Either through raising the weekly departure threshold in outline stations or eliminating in house catering in CLT and PHL. US has been after outsourcing catering for years. I don't believe AA has any catering insourced; even in their largest stations. I could be wrong. JCBA talks will witness another push for outsourcing by the company. Rest assurred. It's where the synergies are. The future negotiating committee must fight "tooth and nail" to protect scope and job protection. If it takes years to accomplish... so be it. The company sure wasn't in any rush to get our Section 6 contracts settled. Turn about is fair play in my book.  

 

[WeAAsles]

rockit2,
I share your concern. To those working in outline stations the definition of scope and job protection is language that protects the work in the station they are working. According to the highlight sheet this TA accomplishes that at least until a JCBA is reached. I do believe, however, the company will continue to come after jobs in JCBA talks. Either through raising the weekly departure threshold in outline stations or eliminating in house catering in CLT and PHL. US has been after outsourcing catering for years. I don't believe AA has any catering insourced; even in their largest stations. I could be wrong. JCBA talks will witness another push for outsourcing by the company. Rest assurred. It's where the synergies are. The future negotiating committee must fight "tooth and nail" to protect scope and job protection. If it takes years to accomplish... so be it. The company sure wasn't in any rush to get our Section 6 contracts settled. Turn about is fair play in my book.  

We just lost Cabin Service and Mail due to the Judge's BK Gavel but we still have Freight. We don't do any Catering. That is handled mostly by Sky Chefs.

And the Company can push as much as they want for more outsourcing. The new pay rates at the least don't put us in a position of desperation to accommodate them if they have that ambition.

 

[WeAAsles]

This is a little off the beat and track but don't be surprised if the JCBA talks wind up not being as difficult as some out there might think? The 3 Major US Airlines are now in a position to raise prices with impunity as even though the DOJ wanted to foster competition, they were woefully unsuccessful. The airlines have the ability to raise fares to cover costs better than at any time since deregulation. 

There is not much room or heart in the system for startup's to gain footholds anymore unless there is significant expansion of airports and gate spaces. Many of your major airports just don't have the room to do so even with Eminent Domain. You'll see plenty of them come and go because a fool and his money can always be parted but they won't last very long.

Even Southwest is growing in their cost structure as can be seen in how their current negotiations are going.

Food for thought for our negotiators in JCBA talks to keep in the back of their minds.


"In advocating for the merger, unions are doing what they should be doing to reap the promises the new management team made.  I would be doing the same.  But they should stop hiding behind the consumer because their interests are not aligned.  It will take customers to pay off Doug’s dubious deal and, as a result, customers will pay more - a necessary fact for decades.  And that’s the reality."

http://www.swelblog.com/articles/us-and-aa-labor-stop-hiding-behind-the-idea-of-consumer-bene.html

 

[ChockJockey]

no
 
we were never released by nmb..  no cooling off period...
 
we will vote on this if it gets voted down, they will go back into negotiations if that fails and the nmb releases  and after a 30 day cooling off period then we will vote on the last best offer and be given a strike vote 
 
if im wrong on that will someone please correct me

P.Rez in a break room info session day before last said there would be a strike vote on the ballot.

 

[WeAAsles]

P.Rez in a break room info session day before last said there would be a strike vote on the ballot.

Those are mainly symbolic as they are attached to a "Vote No is an authorization to strike". If the members voted no it would still go back into the hands of the NMB.

 

[ograc]

We just lost Cabin Service and Mail due to the Judge's BK Gavel but we still have Freight. We don't do any Catering. That is handled mostly by Sky Chefs.

And the Company can push as much as they want for more outsourcing. The new pay rates at the least don't put us in a position of desperation to accommodate them if they have that ambition.

WeAAsles,
Ageed. The TA reached, according to the highlight sheet, does not put us in the position of desperation to accomodate an agenda of more outsourcing of covered work. To squander this position and leverage would be a mistake in JCB talks. I think outsourcing of jobs has been put on hold based on this new TA. I believe, and anticipate, the company will aggesively pursue this agenda in joint talks. If they do; it could lead to a prolonged period of time before a JCBA is reached. And rightly so! There should be no more concessions on cities represented or job loss to a company projected to make billions in profit in the years to come.
Lock and Load!   

 

[WeAAsles]

WeAAsles,
Ageed. The TA reached, according to the highlight sheet, does not put us in the position of desperation to accomodate an agenda of more outsourcing of covered work. To squander this position and leverage would be a mistake in JCB talks. I think outsourcing of jobs has been put on hold based on this new TA. I believe, and anticipate, the company will aggesively pursue this agenda in joint talks. If they do; it could lead to a prolonged period of time before a JCBA is reached. And rightly so! There should be no more concessions on cities represented or job loss to a company projected to make billions in profit in the years to come.
Lock and Load!   

I'll tell you Ograc. I read another blog post by that guy I posted above Bill Swelbar where he states the case that the airlines need to stop the outsourcing epidemic and bring the work back inhouse where they have a better control over it. Not to mention just that but he also cited the value behind better customer service in relation to pricing power. The analysis was pretty insightful and Swelbar is someone who is well regarded and listened to within the industry.

5 will get you 10 that even Doug has had a few sit downs with the man.

And the dynamics of everything we've known since the day we started our careers changed on April 26 when U.S. District Judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelly formally approved the merger of our two airlines.

We do have the hardest job of all now though. Reconditioning our own minds to grasp the new realities.

 

[Tim Nelson]

rockit2,
I share your concern. To those working in outline stations the definition of scope and job protection is language that protects the work in the station they are working. According to the highlight sheet this TA accomplishes that at least until a JCBA is reached. I do believe, however, the company will continue to come after jobs in JCBA talks. Either through raising the weekly departure threshold in outline stations or eliminating in house catering in CLT and PHL. US has been after outsourcing catering for years. I don't believe AA has any catering insourced; even in their largest stations. I could be wrong. JCBA talks will witness another push for outsourcing by the company. Rest assurred. It's where the synergies are. The future negotiating committee must fight "tooth and nail" to protect scope and job protection. If it takes years to accomplish... so be it. The company sure wasn't in any rush to get our Section 6 contracts settled. Turn about is fair play in my book.  

The highlight sheet at United said the exact same thing, i.e., scope for duration of contract. The reality was that the scope was up until the day before. Hopefully, they were intellectually honest this time.  Let's hope the work rules weren't tossed and the part time cap wasn't expanded.

 

[WeAAsles]

The highlight sheet at United said the exact same thing, i.e., scope for duration of contract. The reality was that the scope was up until the day before. Hopefully, they were intellectually honest this time.  Let's hope the work rules weren't tossed and the part time cap wasn't expanded.

Tim do you ever feel like that little box you live in just keeps getting smaller and smaller?

Step into the light man.

 

[roabilly]

WeAAsles,
Ageed. The TA reached, according to the highlight sheet, does not put us in the position of desperation to accomodate an agenda of more outsourcing of covered work. To squander this position and leverage would be a mistake in JCB talks. I think outsourcing of jobs has been put on hold based on this new TA. I believe, and anticipate, the company will aggesively pursue this agenda in joint talks. If they do; it could lead to a prolonged period of time before a JCBA is reached. And rightly so! There should be no more concessions on cities represented or job loss to a company projected to make billions in profit in the years to come.
Lock and Load!   

 

rockit2,
I share your concern. To those working in outline stations the definition of scope and job protection is language that protects the work in the station they are working. According to the highlight sheet this TA accomplishes that at least until a JCBA is reached. I do believe, however, the company will continue to come after jobs in JCBA talks. Either through raising the weekly departure threshold in outline stations or eliminating in house catering in CLT and PHL. US has been after outsourcing catering for years. I don't believe AA has any catering insourced; even in their largest stations. I could be wrong. JCBA talks will witness another push for outsourcing by the company. Rest assurred. It's where the synergies are. The future negotiating committee must fight "tooth and nail" to protect scope and job protection. If it takes years to accomplish... so be it. The company sure wasn't in any rush to get our Section 6 contracts settled. Turn about is fair play in my book.  

Cargo,
 
Keep in mind that Catering has been on the chopping block for decades. Everyone was 100% certain it was gone after AWA merged with LCC, as they had no in-house Catering. Even today... stations like PHX are outsourced, and stations like CLT and PHL are not.
 
In addition, Catering is (and will be) protected in this agreement. The only way to “lose” it is for Negotiators and the Membership is to agree to give it up! Now having said that, let’s suppose DP decides to emulate AA and outsource Catering, what would he be willing to compromise on to accomplish this? He is not in BK-- so; he can’t force the Union to agree to it...
 
Catering is cost neutral either way, outsourcing is very expensive, and was deemed not cost effective several times when bids were taken to replace Fleet Catering on the US side. My bet is, the scope regarding Catering and Cargo will remain intact in their respective PMUS/AA stations for a long time-- even post Tentative... 

 

[roabilly]

I would like to add another observation regarding Catering Scope. Essentially, most of Catering IS contracted out on the US side. Our scope only provides protection for Beverage Packing, Snack Preparation, and Flight Line Delivery. LSG handles ALL of the Food Preparation that requires heating, cooking, and equipment washing. In other words... there are no Fleet Service “Kitchen” workers...
 
AA actually did have a Employee staffed kitchen in RDU at one point that was later closed. WeAAsles may be able to further expound on those circumstances...

 

[robbedagain]

I do have one question here...   what happens if say FSA approves the TA  but say the MTR does not?   there was a deal whereas M&R and FSA have the backing of each other

 

[ograc]

 
Cargo,
 
Keep in mind that Catering has been on the chopping block for decades. Everyone was 100% certain it was gone after AWA merged with LCC, as they had no in-house Catering. Even today... stations like PHX are outsourced, and stations like CLT and PHL are not.
 
In addition, Catering is (and will be) protected in this agreement. The only way to “lose” it is for Negotiators and the Membership is to agree to give it up! Now having said that, let’s suppose DP decides to emulate AA and outsource Catering, what would he be willing to compromise on to accomplish this? He is not in BK-- so; he can’t force the Union to agree to it...
 
Catering is cost neutral either way, outsourcing is very expensive, and was deemed not cost effective several times when bids were taken to replace Fleet Catering on the US side. My bet is, the scope regarding Catering and Cargo will remain intact in their respective PMUS/AA stations for a long time-- even post Tentative... 

ROA,
If catering jobs is in fact cost neutral as you state, than I would have to beieve the company's focus in joint talks, would be to raise the threshold of mainline flying in outline stations to reduce union represented jobs through outsourcing. One way or another; I believe the company is coming after jobs and cities represented in joint talks. We may have won a battle with a Section 6 TA but the war is not over yet IMO. The new joint Negotiating Committee and the membership should be ready. Synergies gained with any merger has included job loss.
Lock and Load!

 

[WeAAsles]

I would like to add another observation regarding Catering Scope. Essentially, most of Catering IS contracted out on the US side. Our scope only provides protection for Beverage Packing, Snack Preparation, and Flight Line Delivery. LSG handles ALL of the Food Preparation that requires heating, cooking, and equipment washing. In other words... there are no Fleet Service “Kitchen” workers...
 
AA actually did have a Employee staffed kitchen in RDU at one point that was later closed. WeAAsles may be able to further expound on those circumstances...

Actually Roa I don't know too much about how RDU operated before I hired on? I hired on in 95 and all I know is that there were a few guys in LGA that came from there and I met others in DFW and MIA.

I'd like to see us fight to get Cabin Service back. The only reason the company got it was because of the BK and much like your Catering they were trying to get it forever. With Cabin service we did cleaning and stocking of supplies.

Here in MIA I'd like to see Eulen America chucked back on their keesters and our people back in those ratty asss old trucks.