2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[mike33]

Okay, let's say there's a improvement of 7k, but it also means 10-12 stations get cut. Then what? For the sake of discussion, it's assumed you want zero regression on Scope.

Well scope is obviously #1. Guess i should have stated #2-#6...... i would not vote for anything that cut 10-12 stations. But the hubs will rule the vote.
 
  What i was explaining was retro only Paired against the wages..... 

 

[cltrat]

I have a pretty good feeling anyone looking for th large retro deal is going to be disappointed.

 

[mike33]

I have a pretty good feeling anyone looking for th large retro deal is going to be disappointed.

Probably...but thats why we vote it down

 

[ograc]

we need phx and clt to vote. If they dont vote then that would be disappointing. Clt votes thursday and phx votes tuesday.

I am willing to accept the memberships' choice regarding DL 141 elections and contract ratification votes as it pertains to the US members. The US candidates on the U4C slate are leading, in large part, as a result of the UA memberships' vote. The true support for the US candidates on the U4C slate will be guaged by the voting results of CLT, PHX, BOS and other US dominated locals. Week #1 demonstrated the lack of support for the U4C slate in PHL. I agree PHX, CLT, BOS and all US members need to vote in order to gain a true assesment of the support the U4C US candidates have among the US membership. I respect member's differeing opinions and subsequent votes. I have no respect for the apathetic members who choose not to vote for whatever reason. Will be watching closely what the US memberships' choice is in this election.    

 

[freedom]

Okay, let's say there's a improvement of 7k, but it also means 10-12 stations get cut. Then what? For the sake of discussion, it's assumed you want zero regression on Scope.

HURRY SOME ONE GO BRING THE BUS AROUND !!!!!! BEEP BEEP!!!!!

JK!!

 

[Jester]

I have no respect for the apathetic members who choose not to vote for whatever reason.

 
These elections are not all that convenient for many... 0700 polling station open and fair distance from PHX with 0730 start times?  What if one takes public transportation which isn't all that great around Phoenix.  How about those who are working a double?  What about those on vacation?  Some people live over 60 miles from work, and they requested an absentee ballot, but it was never received!  Now you want them to drive more than 120 miles round trip on their day off to vote?  We probably have over 100 people displaced from LAS alone with many of them commuting... you expect them to fly in, drive their car (assuming they have one at PHX) so they can vote?   How about those "whatever reason(s)"?
 
Want a good turn out? Have the elections at the airport where more people will be available!  Have elections over more than one day!  Provide absentee ballots for those who would need to travel great distances!  Honestly Ograc, you are really out of touch with how many of the rank and file live, if you even made the comment!

 

[cltrat]

agreed Jester, imo voting should be at the station itself if at all possible, myself Thursday I will be making a 70 mile round trip to vote, not the end of the world to me but many either can't or wont do something like that.
 
maybe putting absentee ballot forms at the station might help things? 

 

[WeAAsles]

These elections are not all that convenient for many... 0700 polling station open and fair distance from PHX with 0730 start times?  What if one takes public transportation which isn't all that great around Phoenix.  How about those who are working a double?  What about those on vacation?  Some people live over 60 miles from work, and they requested an absentee ballot, but it was never received!  Now you want them to drive more than 120 miles round trip on their day off to vote?  We probably have over 100 people displaced from LAS alone with many of them commuting... you expect them to fly in, drive their car (assuming they have one at PHX) so they can vote?   How about those "whatever reason(s)"?
 
Want a good turn out? Have the elections at the airport where more people will be available!  Have elections over more than one day!  Provide absentee ballots for those who would need to travel great distances!  Honestly Ograc, you are really out of touch with how many of the rank and file live, if you even made the comment!

I'm a huge advocate for voting and the voting process in general. It allows for your voice to be heard for one thing. Another is if you were part of the process you can say "Well he wasn't my choice" if you disagree with the direction of an elected official.

But I will say if it was really this difficult to cast my ballot I would have to abstain. Voting should not be made this difficult today. A few key strokes from your computer is all it should take. Shameful personally if it's not.

 

[ograc]

 
These elections are not all that convenient for many... 0700 polling station open and fair distance from PHX with 0730 start times?  What if one takes public transportation which isn't all that great around Phoenix.  How about those who are working a double?  What about those on vacation?  Some people live over 60 miles from work, and they requested an absentee ballot, but it was never received!  Now you want them to drive more than 120 miles round trip on their day off to vote?  We probably have over 100 people displaced from LAS alone with many of them commuting... you expect them to fly in, drive their car (assuming they have one at PHX) so they can vote?   How about those "whatever reason(s)"?
 
Want a good turn out? Have the elections at the airport where more people will be available!  Have elections over more than one day!  Provide absentee ballots for those who would need to travel great distances!  Honestly Ograc, you are really out of touch with how many of the rank and file live, if you even made the comment!

Jester,
I agree the voting procedure used by the IAM is archaic. I agree the procedure hinders voter participation. I'm guessing the voting procedure was adopted back in the 40s or 50s. In this electronic day and age, and given the dynamics of the voting population within the airline industry, these voting procedures do not encourage voter participation. Unfortunately, until these procedures are changed, we're stuck with them. If a member requested an absentee ballot and never received one why wouldn't they follow up with a phone call to the Recording Secretary at the local? Members on vacation are eligible for an absentee ballot. The members displaced and commuting out of LAS can vote at either the PHX local or the LAS local. It's an archaic procedure indeed, however, with a little initiative and effort, an engaged member will find a way to cast their ballot. I'm more aware of how many of the rank and file live then you think Brother. I did my first 19 years in PIT. I have witnessed, first hand, the carnage.    

 

[WeAAsles]

Jester,
I agree the voting procedure used by the IAM is archaic. I agree the procedure hinders voter participation. I'm guessing the voting procedure was adopted back in the 40s or 50s. In this electronic day and age, and given the dynamics of the voting population within the airline industry, these voting procedures do not encourage voter participation. Unfortunately, until these procedures are changed, we're stuck with them. If a member requested an absentee ballot and never received one why wouldn't they follow up with a phone call to the Recording Secretary at the local? Members on vacation are eligible for an absentee ballot. The members displaced and commuting out of LAS can vote at either the PHX local or the LAS local. It's an archaic procedure indeed, however, with a little initiative and effort, an engaged member will find a way to cast their ballot. I'm more aware of how many of the rank and file live then you think Brother. I did my first 19 years in PIT. I have witnessed, first hand, the carnage.    

ograc I have to disagree with this one. Unions today have to learn to engage their membership more than ever before or else they're going to be doomed to the scrapheap of history. As much as the membership should have an obligation to be involved, that also doesn't give those in a leadership role a free pass.

"Unfortunately, until these procedures are changed, we're stuck with them."

Unacceptable.

 

[ograc]

ograc I have to disagree with this one. Unions today have to learn to engage their membership more than ever before or else they're going to be doomed to the scrapheap of history. As much as the membership should have an obligation to be involved, that also doesn't give those in a leadership role a free pass.

"Unfortunately, until these procedures are changed, we're stuck with them."

Unacceptable.

WeAAsles,
I'm in full agreement unions could and should be doing a better job engaging the membership. A change in the voting procedures would be a great place to start. I was merely stating the reality of our current situation.

 

[roabilly]

In my experience, there was a contingency of cynical individuals that felt that joining the union was useless to begin with. In essence... they hated anything to do with union, and hated paying dues. These folks will NEVER vote, go to a meeting, or even read the contract! Many of them asked how to become dues objectors, and some actually pursued that course.
 
Then... there was the contingency of those that were apathetic, and did not care either way. We used to have to literally drive these folks ourselves to the ballot box to get them to vote. Unfortunately, they had no idea who they were voting for!
 
Then... you had those that actually cared somewhat, but only because they had been through the BK years, and had experienced personal losses. The majority of these members are senior, and many have... or will retire relatively soon.
 
This dynamic is real, and will need to be addressed by the Leadership as time goes on, as the majority of the Members probably fall into the middle (apathetic) category! The survival of Labor will require attention, education, and outreach!
 
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[700UW]

Anyone could have requested an absentee ballot, you cant blame the union if you didnt request one so you dont have to vote in person.

 

[blue collar]

Anyone could have requested an absentee ballot, you cant blame the union if you didnt request one so you dont have to vote in person.

You can blame the union if you did request one and didn't receive it. As much as it is the members' responsibility to be active, it is the union's responsibility to engage those who aren't.

 

[cltrat]

Anyone could have requested an absentee ballot, you cant blame the union if you didnt request one so you dont have to vote in person.

that's not the point ,the point is to make it as easy and convenient as possible like it or not that's the times we live in it's not 1992