2014 Pilot Discussion

[traderjake]

 
So you don't think it would be true? If somehow the APA totally screws us, do you think that the West pilots would somehow be better off?

 
 If 3 lists are used the best method for the East is not the best method for the West.

 

[Phoenix]

If 3 lists are used the best method for the East is not the best method for the West.

We should adopt the Nicolau method. The third listers would be a couple thousand numbers senior to themselves! 🙂

 

[Fully Cross Utilized]

 
Apologies, but I've still found no program for translating incoherent babble into English.

Obviously 

 

[EastUS1]

EastUS1, on 28 Jan 2014 - 2:03 PM, said: Apologies, but I've still found no program for translating incoherent babble into English.

Obviously 


 

Making such a "clever" reply requires first understanding the material responded to, which, by definition determines the original material  to be coherent in nature.  Are many others of "you'se" THAT truly challenged in any attempts at logical process? Oh well...That would serve to explain much. 😉
 
GO "spartans!" and Click to Donate.

 

[Claxon]

If 3 lists are used the best method for the East is not the best method for the West.

And like they cared if their Nicolau was fair? What goes around comes around.

 

[Claxon]

Calling all Spartans to rejuvenate the board
Cleardirect
HP Early Retiree
Cactusboy53
Callaway Golf
Freebird
Tiger1050
Move2CLT
Fodase
Ames
AWA320

Vanquished Spartans all.........

 

[prechilill]

And like they cared if their Nicolau was fair? What goes around comes around.

 
Nicolau is fair, consider yourself notified.
 
Remember, be a good union pilot.  
 
The APA will take care of things for you, the contract was just the beginning.

 

[prechilill]

 
I'll give you that. But in this case we are gonna find out very soon. Like in a matter of months. Maybe less...
 
So you don't think it would be true? If somehow the APA totally screws us, do you think that the West pilots would somehow be better off?

 
West pilots are better off without USAPA, this is our victory.

Remember, be a good union pilot.

 

[prechilill]

New Woodlawn Furniture:
 
 

 

[EastUS1]

New Woodlawn Furniture:
 
 

 
Almost unbelieveable, had we not seen such infantile absurdities from "you'se" self-styled "spartans" for over seven years now. Just a kindly suggestion: Grow Up.

 

[prechilill]

Almost unbelieveable, had we not seen such infantile absurdities from "you'se" self-styled "spartans" for over seven years now. Just a kindly suggestion: Grow Up.

Death is a serious subject, Usapa's notwithstanding. This is difficult for all of us...
Let's just all be good union pilots and get through this 😀

 

[snapthis]

 
Almost unbelieveable, had we not seen such infantile absurdities from "you'se" self-styled "spartans" for over seven years now. Just a kindly suggestion: Grow Up.

 

[snapthis]

AWE......EastUS is a little cranky this morning. Your union is beng put to death, too bad. East Chiefs being removed, travel going FCFS, SABRE to list a few. Welcome to the New American.

Rumor has it the company did some number crunching and found that the West complied better with SOP's which translated to efficiency. These numbers improved the bottom line which are carried over to profit sharing. Just think of all that $$$ that was burned up on the ramp.
For what?

Go ahead show the company.

Like I said earlier, there are more ways than one to skin a cat. The company knows where the problem lies. It's with the Cranky Jackasses. While y'all are fixated on a single issue the company is busy planning for the future which takes care of the USAPA problem for good.

I'd say the state of your union is terminal. Too bad if that thought makes you a little cranky.....


US Airways Pilots Union Earns a Long Overdue Cranky Jackass Award For Using Safety as a Negotiation Tactic

By CF on Jul 28, 2011 | 127 Comments
Ive written many times about the US Airline Pilots Association (USAPA), and its never been in a good light. This week, the group which represents the pilots at US Airways has once again topped itself by taking out a full page ad in USA Today talking about how US Airways is unsafe. Though there are other groups in the running, I think USAPA has demonstrated that it is the most ineffective, poorly run union group out there. For the misguided representation it provides its pilots, USAPA gets the Cranky Jackass award. This has been a long time coming.

You may already know the story. USAPA was created when the US Airways East (pre-merger US Airways) pilots didnt like the seniority agreement that was decided upon in binding arbitration (yes, binding is apparently a loose term) with the US Airways West (pre-merger America West) pilots. So they marched off and voted in a new union, casting off the arbitration result. The West pilots didnt like that (its been working its way through the courts), but they didnt have the numbers to prevent the move. You can read more of the history here. In short, USAPA has done absolutely nothing good for its members, but it wrongly likes to blame US Airways management for its failings.

And that brings us to USAPAs current strategy . . . try to burn down the company and apparently put all of its members out of a job.

The latest shameful tactic is the taking out of a full page ad in USA Today claiming that US Airways is unsafe. Lets see. You work for an airline that pays your salary with revenue that comes in the door, and now youre going to turn around and try to shut off that revenue by falsely claiming your airline is unsafe? Simply pathetic. Its such a blatant negotiating tactic, but how will the general public react? Thats unclear, though this hasnt received much press at all considering all the more important real news in the aviation world in the last week.

The ad itself used a single pilot incident that happened on June 16 to show the supposed danger of flying the airline. Apparently there was a flight scheduled to cross the Atlantic from Philly that evening and there were a couple of mechanical issues. There are some mechanical issues that arent considered crucial to be fixed, and that appears to be the case here, but the captain refused to fly the airplane and then, according to the union, she was escorted out of the airport by corporate security. The next crew refused to fly the airplane as well. Over the next couple hours, some maintenance work was done and the airplane went on its way with a third crew.

This is why the union says US Airways is an unsafe airline. It says the airline is intimidating its pilots and pushing them to fly even if its not safe. Then if they refuse, it has security remove them. Sounds bad, right? Too bad its a crock.

Now, regarding the mechanical incident itself, I dont know whether the captain did the right thing by refusing to fly the airplane. I do know that the FAA found US Airways did nothing wrong. Heres the statement:

The FAA manager assigned to the US Airways certificate reviewed the June 16, 2011 incident. The APU shutdown the aircraft experienced is a failure that pilots are well aware can happen and that they are trained to recognize. The battery apparently was depleted by attempts to restart the APU. Flying an aircraft with an inoperative APU is not an unusual event and normally poses no safety issues when proper limitations are applied. The Captain simply chose to exercise her pilot-in-command authority of not accepting an aircraft. Our information indicates that US Airways followed their approved MEL procedures, and all maintenance procedures were followed in accordance with the operators approved maintenance program. We found no violations of Federal Aviation Regulations.

That being said, if a captain doesnt feel comfortable flying an airplane, then its his or her right to deny it. The problem arises when that privilege is abused just to delay or cancel flights without good reason. Im not saying that happened here. I dont know, and frankly, its not central to my point. I have no problem in theory with her walking away from the flight.

But why would security come escort the captain from the airport? USAPA wants you to believe its because she refused to fly the airplane. Not quite. According to US Airways, the Captain was escorted out of the airport by corporate security (after being released from duty) not for her refusal to fly but for her comments made to customers regarding the safety of the aircraft. Unfortunately, I dont know details about what she said to the passengers, but it was apparently highly inappropriate. See more in this a.net discussion. I would have had her carted off the airplane as well.

In reality, there is nothing pointing to US Airways being unsafe but rather more evidence of the airline having good safety practices. It recently passed the IATA Operational Safety Audit, for example. But that wont stop the union from trying to sully the airlines reputation. (Get it? Sully? I crack myself up.)

In the end, USAPA simply wants to damage US Airways as if this will somehow convince the airline to throw a ton of money at the union and solve all its problems. Unfortunately, the union needs to solve its own problems regarding seniority before it can even be ready to talk to management, and it doesnt seem any closer to doing so. I feel really bad for those pilots who never even wanted this union to represent them in the first place. This whole thing is simply pathetic and more than worthy of the Cranky Jackass Award.

[Thanks to Johosofat for the excellent Cranky Jackass Award]

 

[Claxon]

Death is a serious subject, Usapa's notwithstanding. This is difficult for all of us...
Let's just all be good union pilots and get through this 😀

Exactly, all the way through. Without the Nicolau Award. Perfect.

 

[Claxon]

AWE......EastUS is a little cranky this morning. Your union is beng put to death, too bad. East Chiefs being removed, travel going FCFS, SABRE to list a few. Welcome to the New American.
Rumor has it the company did some number crunching and found that the West complied better with SOP's which translated to efficiency. These numbers improved the bottom line which are carried over to profit sharing. Just think of all that $$$ that was burned up on the ramp.
For what?
Go ahead show the company.
Like I said earlier, there are more ways than one to skin a cat. The company knows where the problem lies. It's with the Cranky Jackasses. While y'all are fixated on a single issue the company is busy planning for the future which takes care of the USAPA problem for good.
I'd say the state of your union is terminal. Too bad if that thought makes you a little cranky.....
US Airways Pilots Union Earns a Long Overdue Cranky Jackass Award For Using Safety as a Negotiation Tactic
By CF on Jul 28, 2011 | 127 Comments
Ive written many times about the US Airline Pilots Association (USAPA), and its never been in a good light. This week, the group which represents the pilots at US Airways has once again topped itself by taking out a full page ad in USA Today talking about how US Airways is unsafe. Though there are other groups in the running, I think USAPA has demonstrated that it is the most ineffective, poorly run union group out there. For the misguided representation it provides its pilots, USAPA gets the Cranky Jackass award. This has been a long time coming.
You may already know the story. USAPA was created when the US Airways East (pre-merger US Airways) pilots didnt like the seniority agreement that was decided upon in binding arbitration (yes, binding is apparently a loose term) with the US Airways West (pre-merger America West) pilots. So they marched off and voted in a new union, casting off the arbitration result. The West pilots didnt like that (its been working its way through the courts), but they didnt have the numbers to prevent the move. You can read more of the history here. In short, USAPA has done absolutely nothing good for its members, but it wrongly likes to blame US Airways management for its failings.
And that brings us to USAPAs current strategy . . . try to burn down the company and apparently put all of its members out of a job.
The latest shameful tactic is the taking out of a full page ad in USA Today claiming that US Airways is unsafe. Lets see. You work for an airline that pays your salary with revenue that comes in the door, and now youre going to turn around and try to shut off that revenue by falsely claiming your airline is unsafe? Simply pathetic. Its such a blatant negotiating tactic, but how will the general public react? Thats unclear, though this hasnt received much press at all considering all the more important real news in the aviation world in the last week.
The ad itself used a single pilot incident that happened on June 16 to show the supposed danger of flying the airline. Apparently there was a flight scheduled to cross the Atlantic from Philly that evening and there were a couple of mechanical issues. There are some mechanical issues that arent considered crucial to be fixed, and that appears to be the case here, but the captain refused to fly the airplane and then, according to the union, she was escorted out of the airport by corporate security. The next crew refused to fly the airplane as well. Over the next couple hours, some maintenance work was done and the airplane went on its way with a third crew.
This is why the union says US Airways is an unsafe airline. It says the airline is intimidating its pilots and pushing them to fly even if its not safe. Then if they refuse, it has security remove them. Sounds bad, right? Too bad its a crock.
Now, regarding the mechanical incident itself, I dont know whether the captain did the right thing by refusing to fly the airplane. I do know that the FAA found US Airways did nothing wrong. Heres the statement:
The FAA manager assigned to the US Airways certificate reviewed the June 16, 2011 incident. The APU shutdown the aircraft experienced is a failure that pilots are well aware can happen and that they are trained to recognize. The battery apparently was depleted by attempts to restart the APU. Flying an aircraft with an inoperative APU is not an unusual event and normally poses no safety issues when proper limitations are applied. The Captain simply chose to exercise her pilot-in-command authority of not accepting an aircraft. Our information indicates that US Airways followed their approved MEL procedures, and all maintenance procedures were followed in accordance with the operators approved maintenance program. We found no violations of Federal Aviation Regulations.
That being said, if a captain doesnt feel comfortable flying an airplane, then its his or her right to deny it. The problem arises when that privilege is abused just to delay or cancel flights without good reason. Im not saying that happened here. I dont know, and frankly, its not central to my point. I have no problem in theory with her walking away from the flight.
But why would security come escort the captain from the airport? USAPA wants you to believe its because she refused to fly the airplane. Not quite. According to US Airways, the Captain was escorted out of the airport by corporate security (after being released from duty) not for her refusal to fly but for her comments made to customers regarding the safety of the aircraft. Unfortunately, I dont know details about what she said to the passengers, but it was apparently highly inappropriate. See more in this a.net discussion. I would have had her carted off the airplane as well.
In reality, there is nothing pointing to US Airways being unsafe but rather more evidence of the airline having good safety practices. It recently passed the IATA Operational Safety Audit, for example. But that wont stop the union from trying to sully the airlines reputation. (Get it? Sully? I crack myself up.)
In the end, USAPA simply wants to damage US Airways as if this will somehow convince the airline to throw a ton of money at the union and solve all its problems. Unfortunately, the union needs to solve its own problems regarding seniority before it can even be ready to talk to management, and it doesnt seem any closer to doing so. I feel really bad for those pilots who never even wanted this union to represent them in the first place. This whole thing is simply pathetic and more than worthy of the Cranky Jackass Award.
[Thanks to Johosofat for the excellent Cranky Jackass Award]

Sounds just like when you went down under and scabbed in Australia. We heard the same justifications. Whatever makes you feel better about trying to steal at the time.