2014 Pilot Discussion

[luvthe9]

Are you ever going to responded to my questions or just fling poo like EastUS1, Bill Brasky and Claxon?

No, your a west waste of time, I think your wanted on your board

 

[luvthe9]

I think George Nicolau heard that argument.
How did he rule?
.

More importantly, how did the 9th and Silver rule? No NIC for you.

 

[Piedmont1984]

I think AAviator is either playing dumb or being disengenous. The MOU clearly stipulates that all previous agreements are null and void. But even with the MOU momentarily aside, the implementation of the Nic was clearly dependent on an LCC JCBA. I suppose the APA can arrange to have the east/west pilots have a mini JCBA. If and when that is ratified with the Nic in Section 22, then we can put this all behind us and begin the maxi JCBA.

May take awhile so we better get crackin.

 

[nycbusdriver]

 the legacy of a failed cause.

 

 
Pardon me.  But isn't the story of the Army of Leonidas the classic (literally) example of a "failed cause"?  Not only classic, but legendary!
 
(I wonder if the company would let us wear "Xerxes I" ties?)

 

[luvthe9]

I think AAviator is either playing dumb or being disengenous. .

He's just a west or west related to someone flamebaiter.

 

[nevergiveup]

I do not like the piano key paint job on the new AA but it's an improvement over the drab flag.

I see there are some suggestions of Mt Rushmore ties.

Heck, Usapians could come up with a Stone Mountain tie in honor of the rebels who still want to hang onto the legacy of a failed cause.

image.jpg

The southern quest for freedom and independence! 

 

[algflyr]

aglflyer, here's what you said (above post).  post 5497.
 
Now..  You say that there was a fork in the road with financial performance bench marks that were part of the NIC.
 
Show them to me.  It's that simple.
 
Next, you say there was never a joint contract, so the NIC was never implemented.  Stevie Wonder can see this.  I "get" this.  however, you said that since there wasn't a joint contract, it makes the NIC "Null and Void"  (your words).
 
Show me the document that says its null and void.  Specifically, that it no longer exists.
 
You see the problem you have here, and why USAPA is scrambling to maintain some form of control into perpetuity is that as soon as APA becomes the bargaining agent, they have a DFR obligation to the west pilots (who can produce the NIC) unless of course you can produce the legal determination that the NIC ceases to exist.
 
 
 
Well?
 
Produce.
 
You've failed to produce on the post I've quoted you on, and I suspect you'll fail to produce the "Null and Void" language as well.  I realize, and I've stated this is the internet and you can say whatever you want wether true or not.  Just say "yea, I (aglflyr) lied" and we're all good.
 
luvthe9, I'm still waiting for your response(s) too.

 
First off, I NEVER said anything about any financial benchmark being part of anything with the NIC or any other thing involving the East and West. What you quoted above was part of a hypothetical scenario I asked you a question on. One that you have failed to answer by the way...
 
Next, I'm glad you "get it" that the Nic could never be implemented without a joint contract. The document that REQUIRED a joint contract for implementation to occur was the Transition Agreement. 
 
When the POR was approved on Dec. 9th, 2013, that triggered the MOU to be effective on that date. In paragraph 4, on the top of page two of the MOU, it says: "Once the MTA has been fully implemented, it shall fully displace and render a nullity any prior collective bargaining agreements applicable to US Airways pilots and any status quo arising thereunder."
 
So there is your reference, including paragraph and page number, that says the Transition Agreement is no longer in effect and is now null and void. The Nic was a part of that document.
 
And I have not failed to "produce" on anything you have asked me. Each time I provided page numbers and paragraphs to very specific legal documents. You, on the other hand, have failed to produce a response to the scenario I posed to you in the post of mine you quoted above... And while yes, this is the internet, and I could be lying, I have provided references to verifiable legal documents that cannot be refuted... So I have proved that no lies were posted by me... Your turn...

 

[snapthis]

Pardon me.  But isn't the story of the Army of Leonidas the classic (literally) example of a "failed cause"?  Not only classic, but legendary!

That may be the case for the ancient AOL. Not so for the AOL which still stands.

 

[nycbusdriver]

I think AAviator is either playing dumb or being disengenous. The MOU clearly stipulates that all previous agreements are null and void. But even with the MOU momentarily aside, the implementation of the Nic was clearly dependent on an LCC JCBA. I suppose the APA can arrange to have the east/west pilots have a mini JCBA. If and when that is ratified with the Nic in Section 22, then we can put this all behind us and begin the maxi JCBA.

May take awhile so we better get crackin.

 
Assuming for a second that your scenario is even plausible and/or legal, then part of the mini JCBA would also have to be the requirement for east and west ratification.  Any idea how that would go?   Let's poll the "probationary period" captains and see how they want it handled, and how they and their contemporaries on the 767 would vote.

 

[AAviator]

Since when is a Seniority list an agreement?

 

[nycbusdriver]

That may be the case for the ancient AOL. Not so for the AOL which still stands.

 
Yeah....poor King Leonidas lived before the $675 "patriotic" tie was invented!        

 

[AAviator]

Since when is a Seniority list an agreement? If the MOU killed the NIC,  it also killed your DOH. It is very specific, right?

 

[nycbusdriver]

Since when is a Seniority list an agreement?

 
Duh!
 
Section 22 of the US Airways (east) pilot contract.
Section 22 of the AWA pilot contract.
Section 13 of the AAL pilot contract.

 

[snapthis]

The southern quest for freedom and independence!

Whistling Dixie is a slang term that means "unrealistic fantasizing".

Oh, I wish I was in the land of cotton,
Old times there are not forgotten,
Look away, look away, look away Dixie Land.

In Dixie Land, where I was born in,
early on one frosty mornin',
Look away, look away, look away Dixie Land.

I wish I was in Dixie, Hooray! Hooray!
In Dixie Land I'll take my stand
to live and die in Dixie.
Away, away, away down south in Dixie.
Away, away, away down south in Dixie

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The parallels are fitting with that Charlotte based association and the song above.

 

[AAviator]

 
First off, I NEVER said anything about any financial benchmark being part of anything with the NIC or any other thing involving the East and West. What you quoted above was part of a hypothetical scenario I asked you a question on. One that you have failed to answer by the way...
 
Next, I'm glad you "get it" that the Nic could never be implemented without a joint contract. The document that REQUIRED a joint contract for implementation to occur was the Transition Agreement. 
 
When the POR was approved on Dec. 9th, 2013, that triggered the MOU to be effective on that date. In paragraph 4, on the top of page two of the MOU, it says: "Once the MTA has been fully implemented, it shall fully displace and render a nullity any prior collective bargaining agreements applicable to US Airways pilots and any status quo arising thereunder."
 
So there is your reference, including paragraph and page number, that says the Transition Agreement is no longer in effect and is now null and void. The Nic was a part of that document.
 
And I have not failed to "produce" on anything you have asked me. Each time I provided page numbers and paragraphs to very specific legal documents. You, on the other hand, have failed to produce a response to the scenario I posed to you in the post of mine you quoted above... And while yes, this is the internet, and I could be lying, I have provided references to verifiable legal documents that cannot be refuted... So I have proved that no lies were posted by me... Your turn...

Lets re-visit what you said.  I will underline where the wheels come off..
 
AA, I don't think you understand how the arbitration that produced the Nic list was structured and why it is no longer valid. Let me try to explain it in another way. Follow me for a minute and tell me what you think in a hypothetical scenario.
 
Lets take the combination of AA and TWA. I'm gonna make-up a scenario that has similar circumstances. While this is not the way it went down, let's assume for this scenario that it did happen this way. Although the TWA pilots were not COMPLETELY stapled, I think it's close enough for everyone to realize they lost a LOT in the SLI with AA.
 
Let's say the AA-TWA SLI went to an arbitrator. The arbitrator ruled that the TWA pilots would get one of two things. 1. They would get straight DOH in the SLI provided TWA, within one year, could emerge from BK and show a profit, proving they were a viable business. If after that one year, they could NOT meet that requirement, they would 2, be stapled to the AA list.
 
So after one year goes by, TWA could NOT meet that requirement as set forth in the arbitration decision by exiting BK and showing a profit. Thus they would get the staple job (option 2) under the arbitration.
 
Would you argue that they should get straight DOH anyway, even though they did NOT meet the conditions of the arbitration that would allow them to have option 1? I mean if the arbitration decision had a specific condition that must be met in order to be implemented, but it wasn't met, do you think the APA would just give it to them anyway just to be nice? I'd be interested in your thoughts on this...
 
If this was B.S., then why did you post it?