2014 Pilot Discussion

[luvthe9]

 
P.S.  I didn't have to go to private school to know better than to pay $675 for a $20 tie.

That's a good one!!!!

 

[dariencc]

CAMERON: What are some downsides to this career?

CAPN AUX: In the 30+ years Ive been in the business, Ive worked for 12 aviation companies and airlines, moved and lived all over the U.S., been furloughed once, divorced twice, flown for 3 different bankrupt airlines, had my pay slashed in half overnight, etc. etc. This biz aint for the fainthearted!

Divorced twice.  Wow, there's a shocker.  Who would have thought that a needy, attention starved clown would wear thin.
 
 
http://capnaux.blogspot.com/

 

[Mach85ER]

I agree with you 100% jcw,, I would have liked to see that except problem is they fired the first shot when they wanted to be the one to make the list along with the company, Air Cal, Reno and TWA, enough said. I believe they would have been better off working with us, Wilson is not to bright. Make no mistake the APA will do whatever it takes to benefit themselves.

 
luvthe9,
 
          If you're going to take a stand and fight APA, I'd suggest not looking like a fool when you do. Using AirCal as an example is one case. AirCal was merged into AA on a relative basis based on a lack of widebodies. AA later eliminated the flying and AA pilots suffered in progression as a result. Closest example to your current fight with AW.
 
          Reno came along. On DOH basis, nearly every Reno pilot was junior to are 1992-3 furloughees. Reno was directly replacing AA flying with a "marketing agreement". When AA decided to buy them, do you really think we would be that stupid to relative merge the Reno Captains into the AA Captains list, and the Reno FO's into the AA FO list. Add into the fact that their type of flying was being eliminated at AA. Of course we stapled them. Great logic using them for your purposes.
 
          TWA came along. After Reno and AirCal, AA pilots weren't going to eat the drawdown of TWA flying like their TLV/RYD/CAI and short haul operation. AA pilots wanted protection if AMR killed another airline. TWA pilots were set up in STL. If AMR had kept STL flying, those guys would be senior in their bidding and had the most junior upgrades in the system with protected Captain's jobs. Guess what? AMR killed it. Sad story.
 
          This merger is a different story. We aren't merging with a poor performing basket case. East, West and AA all are functioning reasonbly well and it would hurt the network to cut on the level AA did in the past. This protects jobs and any losses will be covered by retirements on both sides.
 
         
         I've flown with no one that says to staple. Most just want our percentage of widebody flying protected. Guys like you running around and spouting complete inflammatory BS are the problem.
 
         Now are we going to see some more posts about how unfairly we treated the Reno pilots? As for the TWA deal, I'd sign that deal in the morning provided I get the protections they got.
 
 
later

 

[Mach85ER]

By the way, is "luvthe9" the USAPA CLT rep Courtney Borman?
 
Thanks.

 

[Phoenix]

 
luvthe9,
 
          If you're going to take a stand and fight APA, I'd suggest not looking like a fool when you do. Using AirCal as an example is one case. AirCal was merged into AA on a relative basis based on a lack of widebodies. AA later eliminated the flying and AA pilots suffered in progression as a result. Closest example to your current fight with AW.
 
          Reno came along. On DOH basis, nearly every Reno pilot was junior to are 1992-3 furloughees. Reno was directly replacing AA flying with a "marketing agreement". When AA decided to buy them, do you really think we would be that stupid to relative merge the Reno Captains into the AA Captains list, and the Reno FO's into the AA FO list. Add into the fact that their type of flying was being eliminated at AA. Of course we stapled them. Great logic using them for your purposes.
 
          TWA came along. After Reno and AirCal, AA pilots weren't going to eat the drawdown of TWA flying like their TLV/RYD/CAI and short haul operation. AA pilots wanted protection if AMR killed another airline. TWA pilots were set up in STL. If AMR had kept STL flying, those guys would be senior in their bidding and had the most junior upgrades in the system with protected Captain's jobs. Guess what? AMR killed it. Sad story.
 
          This merger is a different story. We aren't merging with a poor performing basket case. East, West and AA all are functioning reasonbly well and it would hurt the network to cut on the level AA did in the past. This protects jobs and any losses will be covered by retirements on both sides.
 
         
         I've flown with no one that says to staple. Most just want our percentage of widebody flying protected. Guys like you running around and spouting complete inflammatory BS are the problem.
 
         Now are we going to see some more posts about how unfairly we treated the Reno pilots? As for the TWA deal, I'd sign that deal in the morning provided I get the protections they got.
 
 
later

 
 
Pilots were blaming each other when I got here, and they will be blaming each other after I am gone.  

 

[traderjake]

 
luvthe9,
 
         If you're going to take a stand and fight APA, I'd suggest not looking like a fool when you do.

 
Not possible, on this or any other subject. 

 

[end_of_alpa]

By the way, is "luvthe9" the USAPA CLT rep Courtney Borman?
 
Thanks.

No.

 

[end_of_alpa]

 
luvthe9,
 
          If you're going to take a stand and fight APA, I'd suggest not looking like a fool when you do. Using AirCal as an example is one case. AirCal was merged into AA on a relative basis based on a lack of widebodies. AA later eliminated the flying and AA pilots suffered in progression as a result. Closest example to your current fight with AW.
 
          Reno came along. On DOH basis, nearly every Reno pilot was junior to are 1992-3 furloughees. Reno was directly replacing AA flying with a "marketing agreement". When AA decided to buy them, do you really think we would be that stupid to relative merge the Reno Captains into the AA Captains list, and the Reno FO's into the AA FO list. Add into the fact that their type of flying was being eliminated at AA. Of course we stapled them. Great logic using them for your purposes.
 
          TWA came along. After Reno and AirCal, AA pilots weren't going to eat the drawdown of TWA flying like their TLV/RYD/CAI and short haul operation. AA pilots wanted protection if AMR killed another airline. TWA pilots were set up in STL. If AMR had kept STL flying, those guys would be senior in their bidding and had the most junior upgrades in the system with protected Captain's jobs. Guess what? AMR killed it. Sad story.
 
          This merger is a different story. We aren't merging with a poor performing basket case. East, West and AA all are functioning reasonbly well and it would hurt the network to cut on the level AA did in the past. This protects jobs and any losses will be covered by retirements on both sides.
 
         
         I've flown with no one that says to staple. Most just want our percentage of widebody flying protected. Guys like you running around and spouting complete inflammatory BS are the problem.
 
         Now are we going to see some more posts about how unfairly we treated the Reno pilots? As for the TWA deal, I'd sign that deal in the morning provided I get the protections they got.
 
 
later

If APA wished to "set the record straight" they have had many opportunities to do so.  If what you say about AirCal and Reno are true, (and i have no reason to doubt you because I had friends at both and I am aware that their pulldown matched our PSA pulldown at the time) the "knee jerk" reaction, as you put differently, caused Congress to cost you your ability to strip SLI integration away from a single union and place it in the hands M-B or Allegheny-Mohawk.  If you wish to learn about history, why don't you read your own magazine about the formation of APA.  It sounds exactly like USAPA (WAS)!  https://public.alliedpilots.org/APA/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=zlfxFgbfhZQ%3d&tabid=59
 
You know, where the BIG union (ALPA) wants to strip the SMALLER group like American pilots of the ability to control their own destiny over the flight engineers.
 
Captain Lyons:  “We had many pleasant relationships with American Airlines that lasted for many years. Pilots were proud and loyal — we loved American Airlines. There was  mutual respect. We are married, so as to protect our seniority.”
 
 
Captain Lyons: “Officers were members of the Negotiating Committee, the President was on all committees and monitored all expenses. We didn’t have closed sessions of the Board, and there wasn’t any need for a parliamentarian.
 
American Airlines needed reorganization.
 
Perhaps we do, too. “Above all, talk to the pilots — they are the ones who elected you.
 
“The pilots of American Airlines did a great service on behalf of all pilots in helping to prevent the airline’s bankruptcy. When the membership speaks, listen.”
 
I seriously doubt the LEADERSHIP of APA today will listen.
 
Not to worry, I won't be a "member" of your group in any case.  YOUR LEADERSHIP DOESN'T TAKE CAPTAIN LYONS ADVICE AND LISTEN.  Do they listen to YOU MACH?

 

[end_of_alpa]

Why don't you "Pesticles" (and you APA lurkers who think the APA trying to deny that ONLY USAPA has a seat at the arbitration table) read what the APA seniority integration committee has to say:  "When APA negotiated the MOU with USAPA and the company, consistent with this part of the statute, the (continued on page 9) parties established an alternative process and conditions for the ISL development. Paragraph 10 of the MOU details the timetable for the negotiations and, if necessary, arbitration for our seniority integration process and establishes the makeup of the panel of arbitrators and the criteria they will use in any ISL arbitration proceeding.
 
Hey Mach, why don't you tell your leaders to treat with the only "party" legally able to negotiate a SLI:  the USAPA Merger committee and get the lawyers out of it.  Call them, get an explanation and get back to us by posting it here so I can send it to the rest of the pilots.

 

[end_of_alpa]

 
Not possible, on this or any other subject. 

Hey POT....meet kettle.

 

[Freighterguynow]

luvthe9,
 
         
 
          This merger is a different story. We aren't merging with a poor performing basket case.
 
 
later

 

[luvthe9]

luvthe9,
 
         
 
    

         
         I've flown with no one that says to staple. Most just want our percentage of widebody flying protected.
 
 
later

. So why not take the DOH with a 5 to even 10 yr fence and protect you wide body flying, which I have no problem with its yours. Why is Wilson putting all that flying at risk. You know where most of us on the east stand, DOH, fences and C and R, just look at the attrition in the next 5 years. Now the west is a whole different they believe they are entitled to everything you have, good luck with that.

 

[Claxon]

luvthe9,
 
          If you're going to take a stand and fight APA, I'd suggest not looking like a fool when you do. Using AirCal as an example is one case. AirCal was merged into AA on a relative basis based on a lack of widebodies. AA later eliminated the flying and AA pilots suffered in progression as a result. Closest example to your current fight with AW.
 
          Reno came along. On DOH basis, nearly every Reno pilot was junior to are 1992-3 furloughees. Reno was directly replacing AA flying with a "marketing agreement". When AA decided to buy them, do you really think we would be that stupid to relative merge the Reno Captains into the AA Captains list, and the Reno FO's into the AA FO list. Add into the fact that their type of flying was being eliminated at AA. Of course we stapled them. Great logic using them for your purposes.
 
          TWA came along. After Reno and AirCal, AA pilots weren't going to eat the drawdown of TWA flying like their TLV/RYD/CAI and short haul operation. AA pilots wanted protection if AMR killed another airline. TWA pilots were set up in STL. If AMR had kept STL flying, those guys would be senior in their bidding and had the most junior upgrades in the system with protected Captain's jobs. Guess what? AMR killed it. Sad story.
 
          This merger is a different story. We aren't merging with a poor performing basket case. East, West and AA all are functioning reasonbly well and it would hurt the network to cut on the level AA did in the past. This protects jobs and any losses will be covered by retirements on both sides.
 
         
         I've flown with no one that says to staple. Most just want our percentage of widebody flying protected. Guys like you running around and spouting complete inflammatory BS are the problem.
 
         Now are we going to see some more posts about how unfairly we treated the Reno pilots? As for the TWA deal, I'd sign that deal in the morning provided I get the protections they got.
 
 
later

Going to be interesting when you APA pilots turn your careers over to arbitrators. Those 787 and 777 rides may open up system wide. Forever.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Going to be interesting when you APA pilots turn your careers over to arbitrators. Those 787 and 777 rides may open up system wide. Forever.

 
I agree.  I am perfectly content to sit exactly where I am until retirement (in about 825 days...but who's counting?)  But if the APA insists on using an arbitration that dangles a  777 or 787 (in JFK?...do they even have them there?) in my face, I may just have to sacrifice and take it.
 
Somehow, I think I hold the majority opinion of USAPA pilots in that regard.

 

[luvthe9]

. So why not take the DOH with a 5 to even 10 yr fence and protect you wide body flying, which I have no problem with its yours. Why is Wilson putting all that flying at risk. You know where most of us on the east stand, DOH, fences and C and R, just look at the attrition in the next 5 years. Now the west is a whole different they believe they are entitled to everything you have, good luck with that.

. Waiting for an answer.