2014 Pilot Discussion

[algflyr]

I haven't been on the board, because I've just been too busy.  As for the APA working a deal?  Not that I know of, although I have no inside knowledge.  I'm not core AWAPA, friends at American aren't that high up in the union, and USAPA probably thinks I'm a westoff.  I did notice the APA dropped the 4 or 5% tack on for contract negotiations, so at least the talks with the company are going well.  🙂
 
Bean

 
It's obvious the APA and USAPA are still talking and trying to hammer out a seniority merger protocol agreement. Both Unions held special meetings this week. The APA hotline on the 22nd made reference that during a closed session briefing, the board received a briefing from "Seniority Integration Committee Chairman CA Mark Stephens regarding efforts to reach an agreement on a seniority merger protocol with USAPA"
 
https://public.alliedpilots.org/apa/AboutAPA/APAPublicNews/tabid/843/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/4375/Referendum-Ballot-Count-Ongoing.aspx
 
 
USAPA also passed a resolution this week referencing the protocol agreement negotiations.
 
I suppose getting a protocol agreement didn't need to happen sooner (although the MOU had language saying otherwise) since nothing could really happen until a joint contract is agreed to. So I imagine both sides mutually agreed to continue working on it as everything else plays out. The APA hotline on the 23rd said they are planning on starting the JCBA negotiations the "second half of May". 
 
My guess is a lot of things are going to start happening very soon. As is common with negotiations, a lot occurs behind the scenes and we all seem left in the dark. Hopefully all will be revealed soon and we can all try to move forward.

 

[Freighterguynow]

Usapians, serious men doing serious work...seriously.
It looks like the APA is going a good job because they know who they are dealing with on the other side of the table. They are giving them something to chew on and to reduce the noise. 😉

image.jpg

Lexicons and the odd jpeg is all you have left.

 

[EastUS1]

Lexicons and the odd jpeg is all you have left.

 
Not so sir. Why, just consider the true value of, and everlasting glow of pride that must naturally come from owning/wearing such a stunning piece of fine "art" as this: http://www.cactuspilotcontributors.com/libertynecktie.html

 

 

[Phoenix]

 
Not so sir. Why, just consider the true value of, and everlasting glow of pride that must naturally come from owning/wearing such a stunning piece of fine "art" as this: http://www.cactuspilotcontributors.com/libertynecktie.html
 

 
 
Or consider the humiliation and embarrassment of being caught in the PHX crew room with a "naked" breast.  We all must admit that $675 is a small price to pay in order to present one's self as a fully clothed member of such a "civil society" (my apologies for offending both "civil" and "society").  

 

[EastUS1]

 
 
Or consider the humiliation and embarrassment of being caught in the PHX crew room with a "naked" breast.  We all must admit that $675 is a small price to pay in order to present one's self as a fully clothed member of such a "civil society" (my apologies for offending both "civil" and "society").  

 
I'd guess one might be forgiven the absence of that tie, if he/she were proudly carrying a full-scale replica of "The Shield of Leonidas", and wearing "spartan" armor as well, of course. Some possible other exceptions might be made for any that come dressed up as "Larry Potta", I'd think....or at least sporting a "dire wolf" T-shirt. 😉

 

[Beancounter]

 
It's obvious the APA and USAPA are still talking and trying to hammer out a seniority merger protocol agreement. Both Unions held special meetings this week. The APA hotline on the 22nd made reference that during a closed session briefing, the board received a briefing from "Seniority Integration Committee Chairman CA Mark Stephens regarding efforts to reach an agreement on a seniority merger protocol with USAPA"
 
https://public.alliedpilots.org/apa/AboutAPA/APAPublicNews/tabid/843/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/4375/Referendum-Ballot-Count-Ongoing.aspx
 
 
USAPA also passed a resolution this week referencing the protocol agreement negotiations.
 
I suppose getting a protocol agreement didn't need to happen sooner (although the MOU had language saying otherwise) since nothing could really happen until a joint contract is agreed to. So I imagine both sides mutually agreed to continue working on it as everything else plays out. The APA hotline on the 23rd said they are planning on starting the JCBA negotiations the "second half of May". 
 
My guess is a lot of things are going to start happening very soon. As is common with negotiations, a lot occurs behind the scenes and we all seem left in the dark. Hopefully all will be revealed soon and we can all try to move forward.

Yes, what I should have said is that I'm unaware of them being really close to a deal, because I do know that they are at least talking to one another.
 
Bean

 

[Phoenix]

 
I'd guess one might be forgiven the absence of that tie, if he/she were proudly carrying a full-scale replica of "The Shield of Leonidas", and wearing "spartan" armor as well, of course. Some possible other exceptions might be made for any that come dressed up as "Larry Potta", I'd think. 😉

 
Uh, yes, the Spartan Shield is indeed timeless, but sadly the Larry Potta is quickly losing its style appeal.  Best to just go with the latest tie style, and be prepared to update when the next one comes out.  Gotta keep up with the styles or be an outcast.   Being cool comes with a price.  

 

[EastUS1]

 
Uh, yes, the Spartan Shield is indeed timeless, but sadly the Larry Potta is quickly losing its style appeal.  Best to just go with the latest tie style, and be prepared to update when the next one comes out.  Gotta keep up with the styles or be an outcast.   Being cool comes with a price.  

 
Points taken, although I'd argue that the current popularity of Game of Thrones doesn't necessarily invalidate the mighty "dire wolf" T-shirt yet, but perhaps it's safest for them to present as cheaply pretended "liberty" loving "patriots" instead. 😉

 

[EastUS1]

Yes, what I should have said is that I'm unaware of them being really close to a deal, because I do know that they are at least talking to one another.
 
Bean

 
I'd be happily surprised to see anything quickly worked out Bean, but it's good to see discussions in progress. As we've all too-long-seen hereabouts; this mess carries the potential to be lawyer-fodder for years yet...and how that would/could serve the best interests of any involved (save the lawyers) escapes me. Nearly 7 years and counting...one might at least hope for even a half-ounce of sanity to finally be injected into the mess. Who knows though?

 

[algflyr]

Yes, what I should have said is that I'm unaware of them being really close to a deal, because I do know that they are at least talking to one another.
 
Bean

 
And I believe that scares the crap out of the West... Just sayin...

 

[EastUS1]

 
Points taken, although I'd argue that the current popularity of Game of Thrones doesn't necessarily invalidate the mighty "dire wolf" T-shirt yet, but perhaps it's safest for them to present as cheaply pretended "liberty" loving "patriots" instead. 😉

 
Rut Roh! Minus votes aplenty! Sigh! My apologies mighty "spartans". Perhaps it was my support for the continued fashion value of the "dire wolf" T-shirts?...Or was it the last part that so deeply offended? If so; I'm willing to make amends by ordering up a full dozen boxes of Thin Mints from "you'se" widdle "army", if that would at all help...? 🙂

 

[USA320Pilot]

Point #1. "The Company brings these counterclaims to resolve its dispute with Counterclaim Defendant US Airline Pilots Association (“USAPA”) over USAPA’s attempt to repudiate the Memorandum of Understanding Regarding Contingent Collective Bargaining Agreement (“MOU”), which was agreed to by the Company, USAPA and Defendant Allied Pilots Association (“APA”) in connection with the US Airways/American merger. The Company seeks to put a stop, once and for all, to USAPA’s bad-faith behavior in trying to escape the provisions of the MOU regarding seniority integration for the pre-merger US Airways and pre-merger American pilot groups (the “MOU Seniority-Integration Process”) – in particular, the provisions which specify that any arbitration that is needed to resolve the seniority-integration dispute will be conducted before a panel of three arbitrators designated by the parties and that any such arbitration hearing shall not commence until after the parties have achieved a Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement (“JCBA”)."
 
Under what grounds or authority does USAPA have to seek the NMB to unilaterally set aside a part of the pilot's contract? Can the NMB legally do that? USAPA once again trying to violate the pilot's contract because the union won't accept a 3-way M-B SLI arbitration, if required. Is USAPA risking the future seniority of all US Airways pilots with their strategy?

 

[algflyr]

 
Under what grounds or authority does USAPA have to seek the NMB to unilaterally set aside a part of the pilot's contract? Can the NMB legally do that? USAPA once again trying to violate the pilot's contract because the union won't accept a 3-way M-B SLI arbitration, if required. Is USAPA risking the future seniority of all US Airways pilots with their strategy?

 
I think what you are seeing is that the APA and USAPA are working out the protocol agreement. Obviously the APA plays tough to get the best for their pilots, as they should. I think the filing to the NMB was USAPA pushing right back against the APA. I have a feeling, since they have both admitted to still be negotiating the protocol agreement, once they come to an agreement, the filing to the NMB and the litigation, will be withdrawn. Then on to the actual integration. I have also heard, as breeze said a few days ago, they are close on the combined list with just a few sticking points. If they agree 90% on the list, they can then just go to arbitration to have the remaining 10% decided. Then the arbitrators rule on the 10% and put out an arbitrated list... Simple... 🙂

 

[snapthis]

And I believe that scares the crap out of the West... Just sayin...

Scared about the fact that USAPA and the APA are talking? That's been going on for quite sometime I understand.

Leonidas is in closed session right now so all I can say is your impression is inaccurate. 😉

 

[end_of_alpa]

Point #1. "The Company brings these counterclaims to resolve its dispute with Counterclaim Defendant US Airline Pilots Association (“USAPA”) over USAPA’s attempt to repudiate the Memorandum of Understanding Regarding Contingent Collective Bargaining Agreement (“MOU”), which was agreed to by the Company, USAPA and Defendant Allied Pilots Association (“APA”) in connection with the US Airways/American merger. The Company seeks to put a stop, once and for all, to USAPA’s bad-faith behavior in trying to escape the provisions of the MOU regarding seniority integration for the pre-merger US Airways and pre-merger American pilot groups (the “MOU Seniority-Integration Process”) – in particular, the provisions which specify that any arbitration that is needed to resolve the seniority-integration dispute will be conducted before a panel of three arbitrators designated by the parties and that any such arbitration hearing shall not commence until after the parties have achieved a Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement (“JCBA”)."
 
Under what grounds or authority does USAPA have to seek the NMB to unilaterally set aside a part of the pilot's contract? Can the NMB legally do that? USAPA once again trying to violate the pilot's contract because the union won't accept a 3-way M-B SLI arbitration, if required. Is USAPA risking the future seniority of all US Airways pilots with their strategy?

Because Chip you refuse to read ...... "THE LAW".   Chip Munn is the ONLY person on the PLANET who doesn't get that USAPA is the SOLE bargaining agent representing ALL US Airways pilots under M-B.  Even a CAVEMAN gets it.  EVEN SILVER GETS IT.  EVEN SILVER SAYS IT.  
 
Chip, however, simply SHOWS how INEPT he is at quoting "THE COMPANY" brief when the COMPANY has ALREADY lost in Silvers Court AND ON THEIR DJ APPEAL!  It is NOT USAPA trying to "violate" the "pilots' contract".  It is simply the company's position in THEIR brief but that in NO WAY makes it LAW.  
 
Chip is the ONLY PILOT THAT RISKS THE FUTURE SENIORITY OF ALL US AIRWAYS PILOTS.....BY TAKING A LOST WEST POSITION CONTRARY TO WHAT THE LAW SAYS.