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2014 Pilot Discussion

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I can't get the quote feature to work anymore, but I'll respond to Claxon.
 
I am not, and never have been an ALPA shill, and as far as I'm concerned, Prater can go to hell.  What this group needs is TEAM PLAYERS, not power grabbers.  If you believe otherwise, you are part of the problem, not part of the solution.
 
Bill Brasky said:
I can't get the quote feature to work anymore, but I'll respond to Claxon.
 
I am not, and never have been an ALPA shill, and as far as I'm concerned, Prater can go to hell.  What this group needs is TEAM PLAYERS, not power grabbers.  If you believe otherwise, you are part of the problem, not part of the solution.
 
Amen!
 
end_of_alpa said:
Unfortunately, here is what the AOL logic looks like....SPIN AND DENIAL:


PHX Domicile Update

Details Created on Monday, 13 January 2014 18:38
Dear Phoenix Pilots,

It’s been an interesting weekend to be sure. This coming week your Phoenix base representatives will be meeting in DFW on Wednesday to have a joint meeting with both APA & USAPA. After that, the BPR will have its own meeting at the hotel we are staying in on Thursday morning. As the announcement says, it is likely this BPR meeting will be “closed.” If you care to stop by, we will be at the Arlington Hilton. As details emerge from this meeting, we will share them with you.

As you know, Judge Silver made her ruling this past Friday. You can read the order HERE, or in the Addington II section of the USAPA Legal Library. If you have not read the ruling in its entirety, we strongly urge you to do so. After we read the ruling, we needed to check our dictionary to fully understand at least one of the descriptive terms used by Judge Silver. Here’s the one we looked up:

Pyrrhic victory – Here it is used in a sentence: “USAPA has succeeded here but it is a Pyrrhic victory.” This is the definition of “pyrrhic victory” from Wikipedia: A Pyrrhic victory is a victory with such a devastating cost that it is tantamount to defeat. Someone who wins a Pyrrhic victory has been victorious in some way; however, the heavy toll (or cost) negates any sense of achievement or profit.

Judge Silver said the following about Pat Szmanski’s efforts in the court room as well:

Pat Szymanski, counsel for USAPA, was the driving force behind the original provision as well as Paragraph 10(h). (Transcript at 86-88). Mr. Szymanksi did not sit for a deposition nor did he testify at trial. But inappropriately during the trial, from the well of the courtroom, Mr. Szymanski tried to offer testimony about why USAPA proposed these provisions. The Court refused to allow Mr. Szymanski to offer unsworn statements about his motivations and invited him to take the stand, testify under oath, and be subject to cross-examination. He declined.2

2 Mr. Szymanski’s actions on this point have been troubling. Pursuant to Arizona….. Mr. Szymanski likely should have withdrawn from this case.

Judge Silver said this about USAPA:

The Court’s patience with USAPA has run out. USAPA avoided liability on the DFR claim by the slimmest of margins and the Court has serious doubts that USAPA will fairly and adequately represent all of its members while it remains a certified representative.

Please be assured that your Phoenix representatives are doing everything within their power to protect the seniority rights of the former America West Pilots as delivered in the agreed upon arbitration process that took place over 7 years ago. As Judge Silver said, “During the course of this case, USAPA employed almost every conceivable delaying tactic.” If you’ve been following our saga, you know that to be a very true statement.

John, Roger & Dave
John, Roger and Dave are usapa reps, not AOL.
 
Boeing Driver said:
Wow...

Let there be no doubt in anyone's mind, these low life scabs are still doing everything in their power to steal the US Airways East pilots jobs. Jobs that the AWA scabs never would have been able to achieve on their own.

They will forever remain our enemy....

Boeing Driver
Wow.  Spoken by a guy who was days away from losing his job permanently and who supports subverting a final and binding arbitration in order to do what he accuses us of doing.  What a tool.
 
This is certainly not over.  You don't see it but you've won nothing.
 
Ames said:
Wow.  Spoken by a guy who was days away from losing his job permanently and who supports subverting a final and binding arbitration in order to do what he accuses us of doing.  What a tool.
 
This is certainly not over.  You don't see it but you've won nothing.
Wake up son, It's so far over for you.  All of your senior guys are fed up you, they have been held back by your little AFO club but it's over now, they saw the the bid that just came out and realize how much they have lost..
 
"Turning to the present case, the West Pilots claim USAPA breached its duty of fair
16 representation by abandoning the existing obligation to use the Nicolau Award. (Doc. 267
17 at 11). For present purposes, the Court will assume such an obligation existed. Therefore,
18 the question is whether USAPA had a legitimate union purpose for that abandonment. As
19 mentioned earlier, this would be an easier inquiry if USAPA had abandoned the Nicolau
20 Award in favor of a different seniority regime. The Court could then compare the Nicolau
21 Award to the new seniority regime and evaluate USAPAs reasons for adopting the new
22 regime. But the complicated state of affairs means that, at present, there is no new seniority
23 regime directly comparable to the Nicolau Award. And, in fact, there never will be. The
24 merger with American Airlines, combined with the terms of the MOU, means a new seniority
25 regime will exist only after the McCaskill-Bond process is complete. That new seniority
26 regime will include the thousands of pilots from American Airlines and it will be difficult to
27 compare that regime to the Nicolau Award. Thus, the only question is whether USAPA had a legitimate union purpose in entering into the MOU. It did."

The LUP box has been checked off. Thank you Judge Silver. Therefore the only SLI we will ever see will be the product of M/B and that product will be sufficiently removed from any final list which could have emerged in a stand alone scenario as to render any comparison invalid and irrelevant.
 
Here's a new take on an old saying:
 
The lawsuit isn't over until Marty's grandkids' college is paid for....
 
nycbusdriver said:
 
 
 
He was NOT deposed, and that was the problem.  It was, in the court's words, Mr. Hummel's "Declaration," not "deposition.  
 
From the Order:
 
", the extent of information Mr.
Hummel addresses in his proposed declaration means substantial cross-examination would
be needed. Therefore, consideration of the declaration would be inappropriate. The hearsay
declaration will not be considered nor will any evidence that relies on that declaration."
 
 
Hummel WAS deposed back in September.
 
http://www.usairlinepilots.org/index.php?option=com_jumi&fileid=5&F=4261&Itemid=522
 
The reference is to his declaration AFTER the trial.
 
Ames said:
This is certainly not over.  You don't see it but you've won nothing.
 
"You don't see it but you've won nothing."..Seriously?  Umm Hmm....Whatever "you'se" say "spartan". Whew! From even one of your own: "We (aol) are beginning to look and sound like the black knight."
 
"This is certainly not over."  OK then, just "Click to Donate" 'till your heart's content Ames. I'm guessing the incoming cash flow's hardly at an all time high now, and your funds would doubtless be appreciated. http://leonidas.cactuspilots.us/Contributions/Leonidas_Contributions_OCT13.html
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAW6D21ICdg
 
GREAT LETTER FROM A BUDDY WITH A CLUELESS F/O................Recently an F/O said "you guys are never satisfied.  You are now getting $181 an hour."  It has been resonating in my mind.  Am I never satisfied?  
 
Facts that exist:
 
Loss of DB pension.  
 
LOA 93 draconian work rules totaling 4000 pilots paying $10 billion 
 
The skills we obtained to gain employment;  paid to keep our employer in business since 2002.  We bailed out USair twice, AWE once, and because of the value we bring through our contributions, American Airlines. Total of FOUR corporations.
 
We are in AA's bankruptcy contract,  now contributing to the recovery of the New AA.
 
I believe the pilots of LCC deserved a much larger payback for our exceptional efforts.  There are not many employee groups who would have,  or could have worked under the conditions we endured.  
 
Industry pay for an Airbus Captain at the new United is currently $40/ more than our green sheet rate.  {group 2 Captain}  $181/ hr was the rate of a DC 9 captain 20 years ago
 
Our Memorandum of Understanding is being mis-understood by management, example the 21 days vacation vs. our APA brothers and sisters 31 days. 
 
Where is the 3% pay increase that was due 2 years ago?
 
I suppose my F/O was correct.  I am not satisfied.  I will not be until we all receive industry standard pay and work rules.  The company needs to live up to all agreements and stop the disrespectful interpretations. 
 
 I do not want to be given anything, I just want a fair { industry standard} days pay for a fair days work.  That is when I will be satisfied.  Our upcoming joint working agreement will be crucial.  For many this is the last chance for returning the profession to the level it was when we entered it.  Know that management is working full time to stop our attempts.  We all need to stay involved and pay attention. 
 
 Ignorance and apathy will result in the biggest airline in the world setting the bar at a lower level than the profession commands.
 
Bill Brasky said:
What this group needs is TEAM PLAYERS, not power grabbers.  If you believe otherwise, you are part of the problem, not part of the solution.
 
I voted in favor of replacing the president, and hold many misgivings concerning his past and possibly future actions (especially regarding the team player aspect), but what's done's done, and all concerned should do their best to band together as best they can and look to the future.
 
luvthe9 said:
..... I am not satisfied.  I will not be until we all receive industry standard pay and work rules.  The company needs to live up to all agreements and stop the disrespectful interpretations. 
 
 I do not want to be given anything, I just want a fair { industry standard} days pay for a fair days work.  That is when I will be satisfied.  Our upcoming joint working agreement will be crucial.  For many this is the last chance for returning the profession to the level it was when we entered it.  Know that management is working full time to stop our attempts.  We all need to stay involved and pay attention. 
 
 Ignorance and apathy will result in the biggest airline in the world setting the bar at a lower level than the profession commands.
 
 
Agreed in full here.
 
luvthe9 said:
I suppose my F/O was correct.  I am not satisfied.
 
You're not satisfied, so what's new.
 
Go ahead and be p*ssed off until the day you retire.
 
The MOU vote was 76%.
 
Your Recall failed.
 
where is res or nic with their latest round of predictions?
If you see them I'd sure like a Super Bowl pick so I can go the other way.
 
Bill Brasky said:
Here's a new take on an old saying:
 
The lawsuit isn't over until Marty's grandkids' college is paid for....
As long as the money keeps flowing any lawyer will tell you that you will win. Once the money is gone ..........so is the lawyer.
 
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