2014 Pilot Discussion

[Beancounter]

GREAT LETTER FROM A BUDDY WITH A CLUELESS F/O................Recently an F/O said "you guys are never satisfied.  You are now getting $181 an hour."  It has been resonating in my mind.  Am I never satisfied?  
 
Facts that exist:
 
Loss of DB pension.  
 
LOA 93 draconian work rules totaling 4000 pilots paying $10 billion 
 
The skills we obtained to gain employment;  paid to keep our employer in business since 2002.  We bailed out USair twice, AWE once, and because of the value we bring through our contributions, American Airlines. Total of FOUR corporations.
 
We are in AA's bankruptcy contract,  now contributing to the recovery of the New AA.
 
I believe the pilots of LCC deserved a much larger payback for our exceptional efforts.  There are not many employee groups who would have,  or could have worked under the conditions we endured.  
 
Industry pay for an Airbus Captain at the new United is currently $40/ more than our green sheet rate.  {group 2 Captain}  $181/ hr was the rate of a DC 9 captain 20 years ago
 
Our Memorandum of Understanding is being mis-understood by management, example the 21 days vacation vs. our APA brothers and sisters 31 days. 
 
Where is the 3% pay increase that was due 2 years ago?
 
I suppose my F/O was correct.  I am not satisfied.  I will not be until we all receive industry standard pay and work rules.  The company needs to live up to all agreements and stop the disrespectful interpretations. 
 
 I do not want to be given anything, I just want a fair { industry standard} days pay for a fair days work.  That is when I will be satisfied.  Our upcoming joint working agreement will be crucial.  For many this is the last chance for returning the profession to the level it was when we entered it.  Know that management is working full time to stop our attempts.  We all need to stay involved and pay attention. 
 
 Ignorance and apathy will result in the biggest airline in the world setting the bar at a lower level than the profession commands.

I agree and disagree with the letter.

As far as what you had to suffer in the past. I'm sorry you had to go through that, but you won't be able to recoup what was lost.

When it comes to an industry standard contract I completely agree. Once the synergies of the combined company are realized there is no reason for us to not be on the same level as Delta, United, Southwest, or Alaska.

Bean

 

[luvthe9]

I agree and disagree with the letter.
As far as what you had to suffer in the past. I'm sorry you had to go through that, but you won't be able to recoup what was lost.
When it comes to an industry standard contract I completely agree. Once the synergies of the combined company are realized there is no reason for us to not be on the same level as Delta, United, Southwest, or Alaska.
Bean

Glad you do, we should have had an industry standard deal or close to it for all of us but unfortunately we have guys like Traitor, Pi and A320 driver (not to mention Hummel) that were content with the first thing that comes along and don't think they deserve better. All you have to do is look at what the Sprit pilots did.

 

[PullUp]

luv,
I agree with you we probably didn't get all we could have gotten. But that is water under the bridge. The next step to being 'whole' is to get our SLI completed, then provide a united front of 15,000 pilots all working towards the same goal: a new and better contract that includes industry standard rates and benefits. 
More infighting and carping about what could have or should have been does not help us in the present. Leave the past in the past and let's all put our heads down and plow through the next months toward integration and a new contract.
Cheers.

 

[EastUS1]

I'm sorry you had to go through that, but you won't be able to recoup what was lost.

 
Not being able to recoup what's lost is always the case in life Bean. A hand poorly played in poker remains cash gone forever. When a table session subsequently ends profitably: That must reasonably be considered as new money, which should naturally exceed any session's losses, but isn't at all tied to them.  I believe there's excessive and entirely misunderstood notions out west on how many of us vile ole' easties think of and view history. What's been known and experienced by us is what the Profession's properly able to offer, and I'll join the initial poster's notions in believing it incumbent on all of us involved to make our best efforts at again gaining, if not "back"; the best possible compensation and managerial "respect" for the Pilot group as a whole. If any athletic contest finds an opponent initially defeating you, but you're still advancing further into the tournament...It's all good. Just learn from it. If in more dire circumstances an opponent defeats you...Then life's over and no further frets need ever be addressed. The attempted point being that nothing receding into the rear-view mirror ever really means zip, save for educational purposes only...which can be served here, imo, by addressing to the "young" how things were, as at least an observed benchmark for not too much (even if unknowingly) belittling both their own and the Piloting profession's established worth. The more one sees such as:  "you guys are never satisfied.  You are now getting $181 an hour."...Well...the more one equally knows just how successfully brainwashed and "managed" many of the younger have become....seemingly without even being aware of it. Any who now find themselves immediately muttering notions of how times have changed merely prove those last observations.
 
Oh well....None of us ever aid this quest with our insane infighting,....but that's another story entirely. 😉

 

[Freighterguynow]

When it comes to an industry standard contract I completely agree. Once the synergies of the combined company are realized there is no reason for us to not be on the same level as Delta, United, Southwest, or Alaska.
Bean

Agree with you on this one. Delta is 6 years into their merger - synergies take time to produce financial results.

Sure, a bit put off on our signing bonus but we did manage to get $400 million in gains from a creditors committee looking at taking a real haircut. Wall Street held the cards on this one.

 

[luvthe9]

luv,
I agree with you we probably didn't get all we could have gotten. But that is water under the bridge. The next step to being 'whole' is to get our SLI completed, then provide a united front of 15,000 pilots all working towards the same goal: a new and better contract that includes industry standard rates and benefits. 
More infighting and carping about what could have or should have been does not help us in the present. Leave the past in the past and let's all put our heads down and plow through the next months toward integration and a new contract.
Cheers.

Agreed, I am just frustrated how our best chance to recoup was blown by Hummel. Also it's hard to have faith in this group when only half of us are wiling to fight for a decent contract, I would love just one time before I retire to see this pilot group stand together. I guess that's to much to ask.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Luv, you'll probably recoup it after the APA finishes the seniority list. That 'recouping' may just suffice as their LUP. In my opinion, as written, Judge Silver's order allows for all of that. I think that's what she meant by Pyrrhic Victory.

That's not a slam, it's just an opinion, and it affects me too if I'm right.

 

[Bill Brasky]

Agreed, I am just frustrated how our best chance to recoup was blown by Hummel. Also it's hard to have faith in this group when only half of us are wiling to fight for a decent contract, I would love just one time before I retire to see this pilot group stand together. I guess that's to much to ask.

I'm glad that cooler heads prevailed than yours.  Doug had already threatened to work around the East group and leave us on LOA 93.  I have no doubt that he intended to do it.
 
Living in the past isn't good for your blood pressure.

 

[EastUS1]

Doug had already threatened to work around the East group and leave us on LOA 93.  I have no doubt that he intended to do it.
 

 
I've plentifull doubts there for a host of reasons. I believe that was purely a bluff, and that such-minded as yourself far too quickly and easilly folded. We'll never know, and no matter now. I do very much agree with you that "Living in the past isn't good for your blood pressure." Whatever our previous opinions, well...what's done's done, and we must just do our collective best going forward.

 

[Bill Brasky]

 
I've plentifull doubts there for a host of reasons. I believe that was purely a bluff, and that such-minded as yourself far too quickly and easilly folded. We'll never know, and no matter now. I do very much agree with you that "Living in the past isn't good for your blood pressure." Whatever our previous opinions, well...what's done's done, and we must just do our collective best going forward.

Personally, I don't split 8's when the dealer is showing a 9, 10 or Ace, but that's just me.

 

[luvthe9]

I'm glad that cooler heads prevailed than yours.  Doug had already threatened to work around the East group and leave us on LOA 93.  I have no doubt that he intended to do it.
 
Living in the past isn't good for your blood pressure.

This management team has done a good job of managing your expectations. Yes you folded early, but you guys are right look forward and hope for the best. PS it's not the past I'm worried about, more like the future.

 

[Pi brat]

Glad you do, we should have had an industry standard deal or close to it for all of us but unfortunately we have guys like Traitor, Pi and A320 driver (not to mention Hummel) that were content with the first thing that comes along and don't think they deserve better. All you have to do is look at what the Sprit pilots did.

You left out a few people to blame for your miserable existence. The BPR who voted to send out the MOU and who unanimously recommend a yes vote as required by the C&BLa.

 

[traderjake]

This management team has done a good job of managing your expectations. Yes you folded early, but you guys are right look forward and hope for the best.

 
Do you really believe we could have gotten a higher payrate than what APA negotiated for themselves?

 

[luvthe9]

You left out a few people to blame for your miserable existence. The BPR who voted to send out the MOU and who unanimously recommend a yes vote as required by the C&BLa.

You know the vote was not unanimous until the CLT and PHL at least got us retro pay, try to keep up. Gary did even want to try for.

 

[EastUS1]

 I think that's what she meant by Pyrrhic Victory.
 

 
Goody for her. What did her actual Rulings say?