What's new

2014 Pilot Discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.
Claxon said:
West pilots mentors. You guys are so smart and have all the answers. 
 
You were spiking the football before you crossed the goal line, enjoy the super bowl geniuses. 
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjeGrwGFGCo
Analogy version of above video.
 
Hey that ticker tape you had going on in the bottom of the above video showing the nic as being 112 percent certain lost a lot in value.  You guys are so clever. 
 
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/06/danny-trevathan-fumble-broncos-celebration_n_3877587.html
 
snapthis said:
Claxon.....when you start quoting Claxon, it's bedtime.
Yes, that will make them click the donation button.  Great retort! (sarcasm)
 
luvthe9 said:
Speaking of AA meeting are those two AWA drunk pilots out of jail in MIA, they got five or so years, right, geez.
What ever happened to our perv that took those up skirts in PHL? How about our lovable tax evader?
 
Chip understands what's coming our way. We, once again, dug our own hole.


In my opinion, Doug Parker's team (Scott Kirby, Ed Bular, Lyle Hogg, Al Heminway, Beth Holdren, Bob Siegel, etc.) created a MOU that bought off the pilots and created an avenue to make USAPA impotent because US Airways' pilots may have waived their M-B rights when they ratified the MOU.

If a protocol agreement is reached and there is a negotiated ISL settlement before the NMB declares SCS then USAPA will represent the US Airways pilots through the SL integration. But, that may be unlikely based on the MC update.

Based on UEL communication history the Merger Committee is likely setting the expectation table by pre-announcing their problem. It appears management wants the West pilots to have their own seat at the M-B table because their Summary Judgment was denied. And, APA appears to be working with management and they want the West pilots to represent them self too to avoid a DFR lawsuit. Thus, the MC update.

M-B was written with the understanding you would have normal merger without a MOU. The merger is announced, the two unions negotiate a Transition Agreement, and then negotiate a ISL & JCBA. However, the MOU changed the normal TA, JCBA, and ISL progression. It's really a brilliant document that could have created USAPA's "Phyrric victory" because they have a court order that says they will stop all SL integration work when they are no longer our agent.

The MOU timeline will not allow the M-B arbitration to begin any earlier than August and if APA's 6-month SCS estimate is accurate APA will become our new union in July. Then USAPA will no longer be our CBA, APA can control the process, APA-AAL can determine the M-B players, and our disposable income will increase by 1.45%.
 
Claxon said:
Yes, that will make them click the donation button.  Great retort! (sarcasm)
 
Well, it looks like I pushed your button and gave you the attention you crave.
 
You're welcome.
 
snapthis said:
 
Well, it looks like I pushed your button and gave you the attention you crave.
 
You're welcome.
Oh yes another intelligent retort from a west pilot.  No wonder you quote other web boards, you do not get away with your misinformation here. 
 
Claxon said:
Oh yes another intelligent retort from a west pilot.  No wonder you quote other web boards, you do not get away with your misinformation here.
Was I misinformed about the resignations?
 
snapthis said:
Was I misinformed about the resignations?
Your impotent group of west pilots merger committee members knew they were as useless as mammary glands on a bull in the big legal picture.
 
Claxon said:
Your impotent group of west pilots merger committee members knew they were as useless as mammary glands on a bull in the big legal picture.
Lame Duck Useless Airways Union may be more accurate.

What merger committee?
 
 
Hey mart, (future non volunteer, pro bona rep, of the former america west pilots)
 
You lost every court case when you represented  the west pilots.  How appropriate that  your new office address is a place paid for by the west pilots.
 
Are there any other requirements, in your fantasy conditional surrender document  for the East plots, that Judge Silver attempted to dicta tate for you?
 
"""MARTY HARPER PLLC
12817 North 14th Drive
Phoenix, Arizona 85029
46787816.6
 
January 21, 2014 Marty Harper
(602) 738-8007
mharperpllc@gmail.com
Via Electronic Mail
 
Brian O’Dwyer
General Counsel, USAPA
O’Dwyer & Bernstien, LLP
Paul O’Dwyer Way
52 Duane Street
New York, New York 1007
bodwyer@odblaw.com
Re: Seniority Integration Process
 
Brian,
 
Judge Silver’s order unequivocally finds that the certified bargaining representative for
the West Pilots, whether it be USAPA or APA, must “‘make every effort to see that [the West
Pilots’] are given extensive consideration, and that their interests are fully and fairly represented’
during seniority integration.” Order at 21:9 to 21:10 (Doc. 298). Although she narrowly found
that USAPA did not breach the duty of fair representation owed to the West Pilots in agreeing to
the MOU, she cautioned that USAPA’s current position on its ability to represent East and West
Pilots in the upcoming seniority integration process with American is “unwise” and that she has
“serious doubts that USAPA will fairly and adequately represent” the West Pilots. Id. at 20-21.
 
Once again, we urge USAPA to act as a responsible union and acknowledge the inherent conflict
it has with the West Pilots on the issue of seniority. As Judge Silver clearly understood,
USAPA’s appointment of two West Pilots to its Merger Committee does not satisfy its
obligations to the West Pilots or somehow negate the inherent conflict between USAPA and the
West Pilots on the issue of seniority.
 
The West Pilots maintain, as they have since the MOU was ratified, that the only way
they can be “fully and fairly represented” in any seniority integration process is by an
independent committee of their own choosing. Judge Silver’s order establishes that this is the
only clear path forward for USAPA to avoid breaching its duty of fair representation to the West
Pilots. Indeed, any attempt to negotiate a seniority list that ignores the Nicolau Award or the
West Pilots interests thereunder would violate the extensive consideration that the West Pilots’
interests are to be afforded under McCaskill-Bond and Judge Silver’s order. As Judge Silver
cautioned USAPA back in October 2012, “[a]n impartial arbitrator’s decision regarding an
appropriate method of seniority integration is powerful evidence of a fair result.
 
As detailed in our initial memorandum to the Court regarding McCaskill-Bond, filed last
May, the West Pilots propose that USAPA establish separate East and West merger committees
to arbitrate the seniority of former US Airways pilots. A decision by a neutral arbitrator, with
each side represented by a committee and counsel of their own choosing, is the only way for
USAPA’s to satisfy its DFR obligations to the West Pilots.
 
Accordingly, the West Pilots propose the following specifics for this arbitration:
 
1. The parties to this arbitration shall be a committee of 3 to 5 East Pilots
appointed by USAPA or the East BPR members to represent East Pilot
interests (the “East Committee”) and a committee of 3-5 pilots appointed by
the three Phoenix BPR Members – John Scherff, David Simmons and
Roger Velez to represent the West Pilot interest (the “West Committee”).
 
2. USAPA shall bear all expenses of both sides in this arbitration process
equally, including payment of the arbitrator’s fees and expenses, reasonable
attorneys’ fees, pilot flight-pay loss, and other expenses reasonably
incurred. The West Pilots have already been paying a merger surcharge on
their dues membership that would more than cover this expense.
 
3. The outcome of this arbitration shall be final and binding on all parties, and
any successors to such parties that come about through merger, change of
bargaining representative, or union election. In addition, pursuant to the
MOU, the outcome of this arbitration shall be final and binding without
being put to a ratification vote by USAPA’s membership or USAPA’s
Board of Pilot Representatives.
 
4. The arbitration ground rules shall be as follows:
 
a. Issue: “In connection with the 2005 Transition Agreement and the
McCaskill-Bond process for integration of the US Airways and
American pilots described in Paragraph 10 of the Memorandum Of
Understanding Regarding Contingent Collective Bargaining
Agreement (“MOU”), shall the single integrated pilot seniority list for
the US Airways pilots (East and West) be the seniority list attached to
the Nicolau Award (as advocated by the West Committee), or shall it
be the Date-of-Hire seniority list (as advocated by the East
Committee)?”

b. Arbitrator’s Jurisdiction: The arbitrator’s jurisdiction shall be limited
to selecting one of the two options described in the above statement of
the issue.
 
c. Arbitration Procedures: Except as provided otherwise below, the
arbitration procedures shall be consistent, to the greatest extent
possible, with the procedures set forth in MOU Paragraph 20.
i. Parties/Participants: The parties shall be the West Committee,
as represented by counsel of their choice, the East Committee
as represented by counsel of their choice, and New American
to the extent that it needs to protect its rights under the TA or
the MOU. The Allied Pilots Association shall have observer
status.
 
ii. Arbitrator: As described in MOU Paragraph 20, the arbitrator
shall be Richard Bloch or Ira Jaffe, depending on who has the
earliest availability. In the event that Mr. Bloch and Mr. Jaffe
are both unable to complete such arbitration within 30 days of
agreement to this proposal, the arbitrator shall be Dana
Edward Eischen if he is available sooner than Mr. Bloch and
Mr. Jaffe.
 
iii. Arbitration Schedule: Subject to the arbitrator’s availability,
the arbitration hearing shall commence no sooner than ten (10)
days after agreement to this proposal, but as soon as possible
thereafter. The arbitrator’s decision shall be issued no later
than 30 days after the first day of hearing, unless the West
Committee, East Committee, and New American agree
otherwise.
 
iv. Final and Binding Nature of Arbitration Decision: The
arbitration decision shall be final and binding on USAPA, its
members and officers, and any successor(s) thereto, and on the
West Pilot Class, and on its and their agents. The arbitration
decision shall be final and binding on New American and any
successor(s) thereto.
 
5. The pilot seniority order decided in this arbitration shall be the seniority list
used to integrate the US Airways pilots with the American Airlines pilots
throughout the MOU seniority integration process, including drafting the
Integration Protocol, integration negotiation, and arbitration if needed, as
described in Paragraph 10 of the MOU and that, in all stages of such
negotiation and arbitration, the West Pilots shall have separate representation
of their own choosing.
 
We believe that this can happen soon after such committees are established and funded.
Given APA’s filing for single carrier status, it is in the interest of all US Airways pilots to
resolve the East/West seniority integration issue prior to APA taking over.
Finally, USAPA must not ignore that Judge Silver also ruled that “when USAPA is no
longer the certified representative, it must immediately stop participating in the seniority
integration.” Id. at 21:11-to 21:12. We are confident that neither APA nor New American will
assist USAPA in violating a court order or otherwise breaching its duty of fair representation to
the West Pilots.
 
In sum, USAPA must accept that the time has finally come to resolve the East/West
dispute. We believe it is in the interest of all US Airways pilots, both East and West, that it
happen before APA takes over, when it will then be up to APA to resolve this issue in a fair and
equitable manner. The West Pilots, therefore, urge USAPA to proceed in the manner proposed
herein. Nothing contained in this letter is a waiver of the West Pilots’ rights to appeal Judge
Silver’s ruling.
 
We look forward to an early, positive response.
 
Very Truly Yours,
 
Marty Harper"""
 
cc: Ed James, ejames@jamhoff.com
Bob Siegel, rsiegel@omm.com
Chris Hollinger, chollinger@omm.com
Andy Jacob, ajacob@polsinelli.com
Jennifer Axel, jaxel@polsinelli.com
 
dca319 said:
Chip understands what's coming our way. We, once again, dug our own hole.
In my opinion, Doug Parker's team (Scott Kirby, Ed Bular, Lyle Hogg, Al Heminway, Beth Holdren, Bob Siegel, etc.) created a MOU that bought off the pilots and created an avenue to make USAPA impotent because US Airways' pilots may have waived their M-B rights when they ratified the MOU.
If a protocol agreement is reached and there is a negotiated ISL settlement before the NMB declares SCS then USAPA will represent the US Airways pilots through the SL integration. But, that may be unlikely based on the MC update.
Based on UEL communication history the Merger Committee is likely setting the expectation table by pre-announcing their problem. It appears management wants the West pilots to have their own seat at the M-B table because their Summary Judgment was denied. And, APA appears to be working with management and they want the West pilots to represent them self too to avoid a DFR lawsuit. Thus, the MC update.
M-B was written with the understanding you would have normal merger without a MOU. The merger is announced, the two unions negotiate a Transition Agreement, and then negotiate a ISL & JCBA. However, the MOU changed the normal TA, JCBA, and ISL progression. It's really a brilliant document that could have created USAPA's "Phyrric victory" because they have a court order that says they will stop all SL integration work when they are no longer our agent.
The MOU timeline will not allow the M-B arbitration to begin any earlier than August and if APA's 6-month SCS estimate is accurate APA will become our new union in July. Then USAPA will no longer be our CBA, APA can control the process, APA-AAL can determine the M-B players, and our disposable income will increase by 1.45%.
Here comes useless idiot ...... Again! The ONLY pilot who attended the Harper/Jacobs school of how to make really useless arguments with no basis in FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW and LOSE.

Here is the real FACT in testimony under penalty of perjury.

Jes Pauley:

"Q. Does the Merger Committee have a position with respect to the issue in this case concerning separate representation of a group of West Pilots?

A. Yes.

Q. And what is that position?

A. We don't believe that it's necessary to have separate representation for the West Pilots.

Q. Is that a position that is held by each of the members of the committee?

A. Yes. It's unanimous. All of the members of the merger committee oppose a separate seat at the table for West Pilots.

Q. And that includes Captain Stravers and Mr. Calveri?

A. Yes.

AOL sunk it's own ship and that will come out in the NEXT trial.

CM is truly so inept that past this point I will no longer waste any time on the forum refuting his insanity.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Back
Top