2014 Pilot Discussion

[Metroyet]

Seems to me that this discussion is pointless.  I really do not know what point your trying to make.  Simply more Leonidas hypotheticals that will just have to die on the vine.  The MOU incorporates M-B by reference.  Again, read the Eischen Arbitration.  I'm finished wasting my time.  APA, USAPA and the Company are the only legal parties under M-B.
 
Back to doing something productive.

There are no American troops in Baghdad!!!!!!

 

[Piedmont1984]

Like I asked earlier...what DFR did APA owe TWA pilots prior to them becoming the CBA for those pilots?  Where do you get this stuff, KV? DFR is "Duty to Fairly Represent", precisely what the Merger Committee is doing before the panel of arbitrators...representing their pilots. Maybe you're confusing that with "seeking to escape liability"...like what USAPA would like to do by immediately riding off into the sunset after failing their DFR to west pilots and leave APA (or perhaps no one?) holding the bag. Damn, there's that hypocrisy thingy again!Gotta sign-off...red-eye into CLT and all.

Okay, let me put it this way, there is no DFR liability on the part of the arbitrators. When they issue a ISL, you can't sue them.

Night night.

 

[EastUS1]

Isn't that precisely what USAPA prescribed for the west pilots? Sans even the opinion of neutral arbitrators?

Your hypocrisy is painfully evident!

 
Take your wholly "relative" and utterly BS notions of "hypocrisy" and place them wherever it's seemingly appropriate. My beliefs have never changed from the basic and decent notion of respecting any person or persons' worked service and experience...period. "You'se" are the entirely unprincipled and purely opportunistic ones trying to climb over the backs of people who've worked far more years then your sorry selves. "You'se" are merely hollow creatures that'll cheerfully take whatever personal gains as are ever made possible, and even fantasize yourselves to amazingly, even be "entitled" to whatever you could ever actually get away with it seems. By "you'se" highly "moral" perspective; A 3-month-new-hire's supposedly "worth" being magically made instantly "senior" to others with 16-17 years already worked?...Seriously!?Too bad for "you'se" on the nic obscenity not being handed to such entirely underserving and just purely pathetic excuses for "people". If any of "you'se" can actually look at yourselves in any mirror, and still fantasize you're somehow, magically "worthy" of subsuming say, a decade or more of anyone else's worked life, while yet imagining yourselves the least bit "righteous" and/or "integrity"-ridden, well...then the phrase sick little puppies doesn't even begin to address the serious need for psychiatric treatment evidenced in epidemic proportions out in PHX.
 
If "you'se" can find anything flawed in the philosophy (versus personal again and rank opportunism) of respecting others for their service and experience, well, let's hear it. What some/any arbitrator's momentary whims are don't matter there.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Question: But the problem is who represents (US Airways' pilots) in front of the arbitrators (after SCC in the M-B arbitration, if held)?

Discussion: The issue has been condensed the issue down to one question. USAPA will not be legally authorized to represent us after SCC in any fashion. This is not Judge Silver's order...it's federal law. This is no different than the representation following the ALPA-USAPA election, no different than the problem negotiating a change to the Nicolau Award with the West pilots who had no legal entity to bargain with, and will be no different with APA and USAPA.

Federal law only permits the dully authorized collective bargaining agent to make representation decisions. And, the M-B statute does not address the fact that two unions negotiate a contract that negotiates a SCC decision likely before you hold an ISL arbitration. 

USAPA wants to act like a union after SCC, but USAPA negotiated and agreed to permit APA to become our agent before the M-B ISL and AAL, APA, and a federal judge believe USAPA is entitled to participate in the M-B process, after SCC, because the union and its membership waived this right.

Again, this is not me making this position. I'm only the messenger. The people advocating this position are the Company, APA, and a federal judge per their interpretation and federal law, which for US Airways' pilots is further complicated because of the union's inconsistent testimony that is being used against USAPA. How ironic... 

 

[700UW]

SCC?
 
No such thing.
 
That would be SCS, Single Carrier Status.
 
If you are only the messenger then I suggest you get the message right.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Okay, let me put it this way, there is no DFR liability on the part of the arbitrators. When they issue a ISL, you can't sue them.
Night night.

To me if it gets to the arbitrators, I won't worry about the result personally. It necessarily means that neither usapa nor the APA will be doing what they otherwise may like to if either had carte blanche.. I expect the AA pilots to do quite well for themselves, nonetheless.

As a little old west pilot, I prefer it to get to the arbitrators. The judicial system is a joke, I wish we could just hand it all to the panel tomorrow.

 

[Phoenix]

Question: But the problem is who represents (US Airways' pilots) in front of the arbitrators (after SCC in the M-B arbitration, if held)?
 

 
 
http://www.unbiasedfacts.org/Frontier-Republic-PilotSeniorityIntegrationArbitrationAward.pdf
 
As pointed out by EndOfAlpa showed, from your own website, the precedent is set in a previous, completed MB arbitration.  The arbitration panel does not have the authority to alter who will participate in MB arbitration, and the unions in existence at the time of them merger will represent their respective pilot groups in the SLI arbitration..... YOU have the precedent on you website!!

 

[EastUS1]

To me if it gets to the arbitrators, I won't worry about the result personally. It necessarily means that neither usapa nor the APA will be doing what they otherwise may like to if either had carte blanche.. I expect the AA pilots to do quite well for themselves, nonetheless.

As a little old west pilot, I prefer it to get to the arbitrators. The judicial system is a joke, I wish we could just hand it all to the panel tomorrow.

 
That I can understand LS. This whole, sorry mess serves as little more than a sad testimonial to the frequent inability of even supposedly intelligent people to work things out in anything approaching a mutually acceptable manner. Small wonder that humankind's tragically primary "hobby" throughout all of history has been slaughtering each other.

 

[nevergiveup]

Question: But the problem is who represents (US Airways' pilots) in front of the arbitrators (after SCC in the M-B arbitration, if held)?

Discussion: The issue has been condensed the issue down to one question. USAPA will not be legally authorized to represent us after SCC in any fashion. This is not Judge Silver's order...it's federal law. This is no different than the representation following the ALPA-USAPA election, no different than the problem negotiating a change to the Nicolau Award with the West pilots who had no legal entity to bargain with, and will be no different with APA and USAPA.

Federal law only permits the dully authorized collective bargaining agent to make representation decisions. And, the M-B statute does not address the fact that two unions negotiate a contract that negotiates a SCC decision likely before you hold an ISL arbitration. 

USAPA wants to act like a union after SCC, but USAPA negotiated and agreed to permit APA to become our agent before the M-B ISL and AAL, APA, and a federal judge believe USAPA is entitled to participate in the M-B process, after SCC, because the union and its membership waived this right.

Again, this is not me making this position. I'm only the messenger. The people advocating this position are the Company, APA, and a federal judge per their interpretation and federal law, which for US Airways' pilots is further complicated because of the union's inconsistent testimony that is being used against USAPA. How ironic... 

I believe we can rest assured that the arbitrators know why they will be using the MB process, and which pilot group led them to it.

 

[Metroyet]

http://www.unbiasedfacts.org/Frontier-Republic-PilotSeniorityIntegrationArbitrationAward.pdf
 
As pointed out by EndOfAlpa showed, from your own website, the precedent is set in a previous, completed MB arbitration.  The arbitration panel does not have the authority to alter who will participate in MB arbitration, and the unions in existence at the time of them merger will represent their respective pilot groups in the SLI arbitration..... YOU have the precedent on you website!!

Did any of those parties even lift a finger to fight who would represent each group? No. It never even crossed anyone's mind to challenge their CBA.

In this case, A group of East pilots formerly calling themselves "USAPA" will be fighting:

Judge Silvers hyper-unambiguous ruling
American Airlines, the largest Airline in the World
The APA
AOL
And A cessation of all dues income. Now. I'm sure, absolutely certain, that USAPA is going to try and divert funds for some illegal purpose at the last minute. Only a complete IDIOT would think they could get away with that and not get sent to prison...which is why I'm so confident in USAPA attempting to do so. Everyone will be watching.

ALL of the above entities have no intention of allowing USAPA to even pull into the parking lot of wherever the SLI hearings are held. USAPA's pathetic legal team forced it into signing its own death warrant. As per normal, Aside from a certain group of East pilots, everyone else knows how this is going to go down.

 

[traderjake]

I believe we can rest assured that the arbitrators know why they will be using the MB process, and which pilot group led them to it.

 
I believe we can rest assured the arbitrators know which union was formed to renege on a previous arbitration. 

 

[Phoenix]

Did any of those parties even lift a finger to fight who would represent each group? No. It never even crossed anyone's mind to challenge their CBA.

In this case, A group of East pilots formerly calling themselves "USAPA" will be fighting:

Judge Silvers hyper-unambiguous ruling
American Airlines, the largest Airline in the World
The APA
AOL
And A cessation of all dues income. Now. I'm sure, absolutely certain, that USAPA is going to try and divert funds for some illegal purpose at the last minute. Only a complete IDIOT would think they could get away with that and not get sent to prison...which is why I'm so confident in USAPA attempting to do so. Everyone will be watching.

ALL of the above entities have no intention of allowing USAPA to even pull into the parking lot of wherever the SLI hearings are held. USAPA's pathetic legal team forced it into signing its own death warrant. As per normal, Aside from a certain group of East pilots, everyone else knows how this is going to go down.

 
 
USAPA has already invoked its rights to arbitration under the provision of the MB Statute.  The APA and the company have run off to a system board and asked a mere citizen to order USAPA to cease and desist from invoking a federal statute.
 
 
You will learn the power of a federal statute.  Watch.  
 
P.S. The NMB, the Company, and the APA have never included Marty and youse guys as parties to the dispute under the MB Statute.  

 

[Metroyet]

USAPA has already invoked its rights to arbitration under the provision of the MB Statute.  The APA and the company have run off to a system board and asked a mere citizen to order USAPA to cease and desist from invoking a federal statute.
 
 
You will learn the power of a federal statute.  Watch.  
 
P.S. The NMB, the Company, and the APA have never included Marty and youse guys as parties to the dispute under the MB Statute.

Those rights are bestowed upon a duly authorized CBA. USAPA has a rapidly approaching expiration date. Nothing "USAPA" will survive. Remember when USAPA advised you to simply replace "USAPA" everywhere it said "ALPA" in your contract? Now just replace that with "APA". Easy. No? You're not changing your opinions are you? LOL

Don't you'se worry about Marty he's the reason you've gone exactly nowhere with your DOH sham for the last several years.

 

[Phoenix]

Those rights are bestowed upon a duly authorized CBA. USAPA has a rapidly approaching expiration date. Nothing "USAPA" will survive. Remember when USAPA advised you to simply replace "USAPA" everywhere it said "ALPA" in your contract? Now just replace that with "APA". Easy. No? You're not changing your opinions are you? LOL

Don't you'se worry about Marty he's the reason you've gone exactly nowhere with your DOH sham for the last several years.

 
 
Why hasn't Marty invoked your rights under the MB Statute?  
 
Maybe you should have bought two Liberty Ties.  Its not too late.  http://www.cactuspilotcontributors.com/libertynecktie.html

 

[Metroyet]

Why hasn't Marty invoked your rights under the MB Statute?  
 
Maybe you should have bought two Liberty Ties.  Its not too late.  http://www.cactuspilotcontributors.com/libertynecktie.html

Answer this: After USAPA is shown the door,

WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AOL AND USAPA?

(Other than the fact that AOL is still very much organized, legally funded, and still a certified class of plaintiffs of course.)