2014 Pilot Discussion

[nevergiveup]

A 7 year Captain position is worth more than a 17 year F/O position on the same category airplane.

Why?

 

[Phoenix]

traderjake: A 7 year Captain position is worth more than a 17 year F/O position on the same category airplane.
 
At least one of us is seriously confused here. ..

 
 

 
Trust me, it's you. 😀

 
 
I dare say Res J now has formidable competition in the category of ironic posts... Even Res J isn't confused enough to laud Alex Jones.   

 

[traderjake]

I dare say Res J now has formidable competition in the category of ironic posts... Even Res J isn't confused enough to laud Alex Jones.   

 
 
First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win .
 
Mahatma Gandhi
 
Two steps down, two to go. 
 
 

 

[Phoenix]

 
 
First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win .
 
Mahatma Gandhi.
 
Two steps down, two to go. 
 
 

 
 
Two steps to go... Just like Leospanker to get the Nic needs ..  1) a proposed JCBA between AmWest and USAir... and 2) they need ratification of same.. Just two steps to go.  You are in good company. 😀

 

[traderjake]

Why?

 
Why does a Captain make more than a F/O on the same airplane? 

 

[fifidriver]

Blacks 9th Law Dictionary
seniority...

dovetail seniority. The combination of seniority lists from merging companies into one list that allows employees to keep their premerger seniority.

...You're wrong Dan. Go lick you're wounds.

Hello EoA...
I'm not sure if it is you that keeps posting this excerpt from Black's, (somewhat redacted), somehow assuming that you have emphatically made some salient point. I have taken the liberty of removing the non-applicable material to make more clear the pertinent issue in our little SLI dispute. This is why Dan is right and you are wrong. The issue is subtle, but everyone other than USAPA "gets" it.
Best regards... Fifi.

 

[Zone5]

Not true.
 
That one was 65% equipment and status, 35% LOS.

Regardless of the specific numbers which were applied to the C/U merger, the arbitrators concept was that LOS is a factor in SLI integrations, NIC did not! Ancient history is just that. LOS is a factor and will be so incorporated in the eventual list, count on it.

There is no way that a new hire West pilot, on probation, who was not even an ALPA member at the time, will be. "Senior" to me, ever! Never mind that he will still be flying 22 YEARS after I am retired! Really?


seajay

 

[Zone5]

Why does a Captain make more than a F/O on the same airplane?

y


Possibly because they are willing to be ultimately the one that the FAA will hammer big time if things go wrong? Again, what has that to do with seniority? Are you implying that it is all about the money? I make more than a reserve A320 Captain (who I am senior to) collecting reserve guarantee and have what I consider to be a much better QOF. That's my choice.

Again, you seem to be all about the money, when you prognosticate about the "worth" of one pilot's job verses another's.

ALPA "screwed the pooch" when they first strayed from DOH/LOS for "political" reasons, all the more reason for "tossing them to the curb"!


seajay

 

[traderjake]

Regardless of the specific numbers which were applied to the C/U merger, the arbitrators concept was that LOS is a factor in SLI integrations, NIC did not!

 
Continental and United were not in Chapter 11 facing possible Chapter 7. 
 
That's why Nicolau gave us no credit for LOS or career expectations.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Hello EoA...
I'm not sure if it is you that keeps posting this excerpt from Black's, (somewhat redacted), somehow assuming that you have emphatically made some salient point. I have taken the liberty of removing the non-applicable material to make more clear the pertinent issue in our little SLI dispute. This is why Dan is right and you are wrong. The issue is subtle, but everyone other than USAPA "gets" it.
Best regards... Fifi.

It is me that is posting it.  The FACT is that the LAW HAS DEFINED SENIORITY.  It is defined as LENGTH OF SERVICE.  There are NUMEROUS cases that support the definition.  The ones that wish to CHANGE that definition are....PILOTS.  Seniority is based on TIME.  So is longevity (pay).  While the two are time based calculations other integration methods are based on NON MEASURABLE variables.  These calculations strip the pilots of their value.

 

[end_of_alpa]

 
Continental and United were not in Chapter 11 facing possible Chapter 7. 
 
That's why Nicolau gave us no credit for LOS or career expectations.

That was ALPA merger policy and would not have happened under M-B.  ALPA realized the problem and mitigated the next merger impacts by reinserting length of service.
 
BTW, I have more years as Captain with US Airways than you do even though you were hired a few months before me.  Guess that makes me more valuable than you, Dan.
 
Besides, none of this matters anymore.  AOL lost in court.  Dan, you should bid F/O up until the last AWA pilot makes Captain.  That will make it right.

 

[end_of_alpa]

 
 
First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win .
 
Mahatma Gandhi
 
Two steps down, two to go. 
 
 

India vs. GB.  Not pilot against pilot... no wait:  pilots have ALWAYS hated pilots.

 

[end_of_alpa]

NMB dismantling arbitration:  SAY IT AIN'T SO!
 
https://storage.googleapis.com/dakota-dev-content/41-NMB-No.-11-FUI-Frontier-Ailines-Inc.-FAPA-IBT.pdf
 
"There still remains an IMSL covering all Pilots on the formerly-found Republic Airlines, et al./Frontier single transportation system. However, no collectively bargained implementing agreement was ever concluded so the Frontier Pilots have been effectively operating separately under the Frontier CBA. Further, the only indicia still supporting Frontier’s inclusion in the RAH single transportation system is the IMSL. This factor alone is insufficient to support finding Frontier part of the RAH transportation system. See Republic Airlines, et al./Frontier, 38 NMB 138, 154 (2011), Northwest Airlines, Inc./Delta Air Lines, Inc., 37 NMB 88 (2009) (Board finds a single transportation system only when there is substantial integration of operations, financial control, and labor and personnel functions.); See also Precision Valley Aviation, Inc., d/b/a Precision Airlines and Valley Flying Serv., Inc., d/b/a Northeast Express Reg’l Airlines, 20 NMB 619 (1993) (a substantial degree of overlapping ownership, senior management, and Boards of Directors is critical to finding a single transportation system.)."
 
Does this sound, feel, look, ACT familiar???

 

[Metroyet]

It is me that is posting it.  The FACT is that the LAW HAS DEFINED SENIORITY.  It is defined as LENGTH OF SERVICE.  There are NUMEROUS cases that support the definition.  The ones that wish to CHANGE that definition are....PILOTS.  Seniority is based on TIME.  So is longevity (pay).  While the two are time based calculations other integration methods are based on NON MEASURABLE variables.  These calculations strip the pilots of their value.

So every list that didn't go straight DOH is illegal? Prepare yourself for another "illegal" SLI.

 

[EastUS1]

So every list that didn't go straight DOH is illegal? Prepare yourself for another "illegal" SLI.

 
"Prepare yourself for another..."? After all these years of prescient prognosticators like "you'se" self so accurately predicting all things; "You won't even get 200 cards!", the always-imminent demise of the east, and of course loudly shouting that "the nic is it"...can it now be even possible that you've finally figured out the nic ain't really nuthin' after all? Please clarify that at your earliest convenience. You're starting to worry me here. 😉
 
P.S. I don't expect to see DOH reign supreme here anymore. The sad fact is that it's nearly impossible to restore order in any asylum after the lunatics have taken over. If at some future time your sorts find yourselves living in a work world wherein no actual worth is accorded even the most farcical notions of "seniority", and "you'se' are every bit as disposable or promotable as the last, just-now-hired worker...well...you will have proudly set the stage for such.