A different Teamster contract.
- Thread starter gonzo
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calibrator
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allunionsdeceive
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so you say no union IAM IBT AMFA outsource the members it represents does.
The judge did not write or force a contract on u. It was voted
all of this does impacts and afectts everyone at u
thats right and if the IAM cooked it u should not of eaten something that will make it sick.
And I don't cook, the flame does
Phantom Fixer
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Bob,
Sit back and watch what happens with a Non-Union Shop such as DL as time moves forward , You have already stated thier death..and I see the Employee's taking a Blood-Bath to save the company. Lets see whom is closer to right this time a year from now.
BTW..Not a damn soul has forced you into a Union..and I know that nobody around here has ever asked your opinion of our business...but such is minor flaw in the world of freedom I guess.
Like I have said before...Lets make your business a matter of open book interest...and I'm sure that more than a few would love to spend a few moments , un-like your few hours a week taking pot shots at your method of making a living.
I'm not the biggest fan of Unions myself , but the enviroment has made them a necessary evil in my opinion. Frankly I've felt more freedom while serving Uncle Sam at times. However..it is what it is..and that was the choice I made when I said I do to a Union Represented Job at an airline.
Gonzo...boy does that fits. I'm smart enough to know that DP and AC didn't let the tongue slip when they made the comments about the IAM Contract keeping more work in-house as opposed to what your IBT contract offers. I'm convinced that elements of both contracts that will Wow the Senior most and sell out the Junior Most are exactly what DP is banking on. They have noted how to allow the Unions to eat thier own young for a few years now. It damn sure worked with the Easts ALPA Membership for example , Look at what the Jets for Jobs program did...or the ALPA financing of our now sold off Mid Atlantic Division...what a wholesale disaster for labor on so many levels.
DP was very clear that U had to do what it did in terms of cost savings to even allow the Merger of our two floundering airlines to happen...and if you can't admit to being an airline that was mearly floundering , you need to do some soul searching.
What we have is a situation of U having greater scope thus allowing larger numbers of employee's on the East side.
U of the West has better pay for some , not all , by a long shot and better benefits regarding Sick Pay , Vacation and Holidays...but with that said...its a trade off of perks Vs. Employing larger numbers of people at what are liveable wages. Unless you look at what the West pays people other than say "Licensed Mechanics" whom are working in that capacity.
I'm sure that you have to be a Mechanic like myself..and you are setting pretty with your "I've got mine , Screw the rest approach to life. I on the other hand have taken the beatings along with all my other Union Brothers and Sisters and can still live with the wage and myself...as I elect to not sell anyone down the river , regardless of class and craft within the Non-Management ranks. Your contract will idle a few thousand more employee's and short sell the earning potential of a lot of people that don't fall under the AMT classification in the current IBT CBA.
Tell me this. How do your Stores Clerks fare as opposed to ours from a salary standpoint?
How do your Planners fare as opposed to ours from a salary standpoint?
How about Utility workers? We only have 50 System Wide now...but they aren't working for wages that are on par with the sub-contractors ...How about yours?
This is the bad thing about the two Unions here...This one covers this ..and the other covers that , so drawing a perfect head to head comparison is difficult. Unless one only thinks about him/herself 100% of the time. That kind of person is not a Trade-Unionist" that I want to be brothers with in the long or short term.
Sit back and watch what happens with a Non-Union Shop such as DL as time moves forward , You have already stated thier death..and I see the Employee's taking a Blood-Bath to save the company. Lets see whom is closer to right this time a year from now.
BTW..Not a damn soul has forced you into a Union..and I know that nobody around here has ever asked your opinion of our business...but such is minor flaw in the world of freedom I guess.
Like I have said before...Lets make your business a matter of open book interest...and I'm sure that more than a few would love to spend a few moments , un-like your few hours a week taking pot shots at your method of making a living.
I'm not the biggest fan of Unions myself , but the enviroment has made them a necessary evil in my opinion. Frankly I've felt more freedom while serving Uncle Sam at times. However..it is what it is..and that was the choice I made when I said I do to a Union Represented Job at an airline.
Gonzo...boy does that fits. I'm smart enough to know that DP and AC didn't let the tongue slip when they made the comments about the IAM Contract keeping more work in-house as opposed to what your IBT contract offers. I'm convinced that elements of both contracts that will Wow the Senior most and sell out the Junior Most are exactly what DP is banking on. They have noted how to allow the Unions to eat thier own young for a few years now. It damn sure worked with the Easts ALPA Membership for example , Look at what the Jets for Jobs program did...or the ALPA financing of our now sold off Mid Atlantic Division...what a wholesale disaster for labor on so many levels.
DP was very clear that U had to do what it did in terms of cost savings to even allow the Merger of our two floundering airlines to happen...and if you can't admit to being an airline that was mearly floundering , you need to do some soul searching.
What we have is a situation of U having greater scope thus allowing larger numbers of employee's on the East side.
U of the West has better pay for some , not all , by a long shot and better benefits regarding Sick Pay , Vacation and Holidays...but with that said...its a trade off of perks Vs. Employing larger numbers of people at what are liveable wages. Unless you look at what the West pays people other than say "Licensed Mechanics" whom are working in that capacity.
I'm sure that you have to be a Mechanic like myself..and you are setting pretty with your "I've got mine , Screw the rest approach to life. I on the other hand have taken the beatings along with all my other Union Brothers and Sisters and can still live with the wage and myself...as I elect to not sell anyone down the river , regardless of class and craft within the Non-Management ranks. Your contract will idle a few thousand more employee's and short sell the earning potential of a lot of people that don't fall under the AMT classification in the current IBT CBA.
Tell me this. How do your Stores Clerks fare as opposed to ours from a salary standpoint?
How do your Planners fare as opposed to ours from a salary standpoint?
How about Utility workers? We only have 50 System Wide now...but they aren't working for wages that are on par with the sub-contractors ...How about yours?
This is the bad thing about the two Unions here...This one covers this ..and the other covers that , so drawing a perfect head to head comparison is difficult. Unless one only thinks about him/herself 100% of the time. That kind of person is not a Trade-Unionist" that I want to be brothers with in the long or short term.
Phantom Fixer
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OK Bob, You've Made your point and We all know how you feel about Unions. Time to move on and go about your business..regardless of how boring it is.
Rightfully or Wrongfully..U East and U West are Union Represented Companies attempting to truly become One..and We among ourselves have to decide the direction things are going to take from this point forward. We do not have the un-yielding threat of Judge Mitchell breaking any more negotiated deals from this point..So its up to us to decide , NOT YOU..the Unions and the dues that both sides of this A or B situation are not going to just go away...Sorry to bust your bubble , that's just the truth of the matter.
With the above statement being what it is...and what it is is fact. The only thing that could get rid of the Unions is a protracted battle that would end in de-certification of both the IBT and the IAM. That might just make your day..but it would end in a middle-class Blood-bath within this combined company that would make Judge Mitchell's past actions look like a Lottery Win...I suggest you re-read where we agree about what is about to take place at DL again for clarification. The Contracts at the combined U are the ony thing standing between The Corporate Monsters of thew world and the wholesale slaughter of the airlines labor force.
gonzo
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Phantom Fixer,
Yes, sometimes my board name does fit. I have never said that AWA was not in trouble. All airlines are in trouble and are "floundering". Some are not "floundering" much any more and are just waiting to die. Many considered the "Old US Airways" to be one of the "waiting to die" airlines. I understand the seriousness of the of the problem all to well.
I really don't believe that I have the "I've got mine screw you" attitude at all. I have however had the "I've got mine, screw you" attitude used on myself. It is not a fun situation at all. I am not one of the "high" seniority members.
I am not the best "poster boy" for the union to use as an example of a satisfied "customer". But it is better to have a union in this business, rather than not.
None of our planners, engineering, technical writers, Quality Assurance or office personnel are union. Most of them were directly involved in maintenance at one time, they chose to move away from the union way of life or at least away form the "getting your hands dirty" way of life. They are in a state of "limbo" right now. Not knowing what to think. 🙂
(VMFA-235, F4-J,ORD sys. tech)
MyOpinion
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So are you saying that the IAM has AMT's at these places? Interesting I didn't know that.
320tech
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well per your interpretation the teamsters don't outsourse either awa does, at least we can say our ceo outsoursed all of awa heavy checks before the IBT was voted in what was your excuse was a judge. and the teamsters got the company to start up the phase heavy checks on the new airbuses and all the teamster techs that were fireed by Bill Franke all were offered jobs back with the company how many of your techs were brought back? mr 7 its time to get a life and quit telling stories.
320tech
Senior
1st of all we keep telling you guys that all work that is in house will stay its plain and simple the company has tried and lost they can't outsourse any work that is in house now! and your store clerk question they are not part of our contract and that was the companys choice to keep them seperate from us. and the planers, QA, moc, and trainers are non union at awa and talking with most of them they rather stay that way. our moc guys make alot more then yours do and they would take a big pay cut and loose benefits.
Phantom Fixer
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You guys keep teeling us a lot of things...But We in the East are for the most part not inclined to gamble the known for the un-tested. DP is going to have to keep his cost savings in place in some fashion...so to assume that eveything from a standpoint of scope will remain in place..and bump all U Mechanic and Related up to the Wests current pay and benefit levels is dreaming.
I'll bet your company didn't want your Stores Clerks in the Union , the thought of having to pay them a respectable wage is simply un-nerving to them...I guess DP will want our Stores Clerks to sink to HP's wage scale to off-set things?
Sure your Planners , QA and Trainers are Non-Union...and they are all under-paid too. The company appreciates it too ! If they are willing to work for less , Fine...just don't expect our people in the east to have to sink to your pay scales to make up the difference. BTW..We had a lot of people in the Planning , QA and the alike that weren't wild about being represented at first too..but when they saw that they got annual raises , with a defined state of financial progression that wasn't based on who's friend you were..Those objections pretty much went the way of the wind.
Maybe your MOC people do get paid a bit better?...I can't say for sure in all honesty , as being Non-Union on the West side....a payscale is not a matter of record. Take note..This is only one example other than a Mechanics position that you can boast about being better paid. You also have to take into account that the East has more people in our MOC...and that also includes MOC Field Techs whom move around to chase problematic issues too.
per the accepted contract mod's...IAM agreed to it. 😉
