A New Year

[Garfield1966]

Did it ever occur to you that sometimes people really do get Ill, I mean after all this is the hieght of the Flu season. Just because someone fails to show up for work means they are trying to ruin this company as you put it? Very noble of you to come on here and Pat yourself on the back <_<

[post="235482"][/post]​

Good lord. Here we go again. It is statistically impossible to have a sick list nearly double like clock work over the holidays, year after year after year, with out having a large percentage of the people LYING. If you want to argue that case, we can contact the CDC and you explain to them with a straight face that this “illnessâ€￾ only happens to airline personal who have operational jobs who had to work over the holidays and as suddenly the epidemic rises, it miraculously gets cured a few days after the 1st as if nothing happened. Can I please be in the room when you tell them this? I want to see the expression on their face just be for the throw you into a straight jacket and lock you up.

If the average sick list is 100 people on any given day through out the year plus or minus a few, then on a holiday, it goes to 200, simple logic would tell you at in addition to the percentage of the 100 average on the sick list who are not sick, that the additional 100 on the sick list are also lying. There is no known disease that is based on holidays. I fail to see why this is so difficult to grasp or understand. It happens in my department, it happens in yours, it happens to FA’s, pilots, gate agents and any other poor sap who has to work on the holidays.

As one flyer said, you knew this when you signed up for this gig. It has nothing to do with pay cuts because the same crap was happening when AA was handing out prifit sharing so that dog won’t hunt. If an operational job no longer fits your life style, then see alternate employment.

AASTEW, you should have called in sick. If you are injured, that is what the policy is there for. I for one appreciate your dedication (or what ever reason you showed up for).

 

[flydcoop]

Good lord. Here we go again. It is statistically impossible to have a sick list nearly double like clock work over the holidays, year after year after year, with out having a large percentage of the people LYING.


And here comes the crAAp. I truly had the freakin' flu. I was cleared by AA medical on the 22nd to work on the 23rd (I worked the 25th). I had blocked ears due to congestion and apparently, the AA FMLA HDQ doesn't believe AA's own nurses...NICE!

I failed 2 tympanograms and I was still cleared for flying (hmm...possible lawsuit? I just want to stay off a 1WW.) I guess it is more important to have a warm body flying and risk a blown eardrum.

I personally wanted to go back to work, I was bored senseless.

I fly every 25DEC (except one, because I didn't clear the sick list in time, I lost a really Princess trip as a result) because I don't care for the hell-lidays.

I had people sneezing and coughing all over me in December.

You have to understand our side sometimes...I lost 20-plus hours in 2-4-1 trips and pay...it's hilarious, I actually put more back in my sick bank than I used.

I need the cash, I have about 4 months of sick-time...Yes, I've called in 3 times over a 12 month rolling period because I was sent to one of the worst allergy bases in the system.

I started in RDU...4 sinus infections a year, and I wasn't even flying. I go to MIA and everything is dandy until I become a F/A. I go to BOS and get sick.

I finally get to MIA and everything is kosher...I maybe get a cold once a year.

Then I get to STL...everytime the landscapers are out at the apartment complex, my allergies go nuts. Don't get me started on fresh-cut grass.

I've lived on Flo-Nase to the point that nose bleeds don't freak me out.

So for the record, if I am sick, I AM SICK!

The others? Not my problem.

It's management's job to figure that out, it's what you're paid for.

Are the holidays abused sick-wise? Absolutely...not my job.

I'm sure there are managers who have abused their position as well.


Coop

SLT

 

[goingboeing]

Good lord. Here we go again. It is statistically impossible to have a sick list nearly double like clock work over the holidays, year after year after year, with out having a large percentage of the people LYING. If you want to argue that case, we can contact the CDC and you explain to them with a straight face that this “illnessâ€￾ only happens to airline personal who have operational jobs who had to work over the holidays and as suddenly the epidemic rises, it miraculously gets cured a few days after the 1st as if nothing happened. Can I please be in the room when you tell them this? I want to see the expression on their face just be for the throw you into a straight jacket and lock you up.

If the average sick list is 100 people on any given day through out the year plus or minus a few, then on a holiday, it goes to 200, simple logic would tell you at in addition to the percentage of the 100 average on the sick list who are not sick, that the additional 100 on the sick list are also lying. There is no known disease that is based on holidays. I fail to see why this is so difficult to grasp or understand. It happens in my department, it happens in yours, it happens to FA’s, pilots, gate agents and any other poor sap who has to work on the holidays.

As one flyer said, you knew this when you signed up for this gig. It has nothing to do with pay cuts because the same crap was happening when AA was handing out prifit sharing so that dog won’t hunt. If an operational job no longer fits your life style, then see alternate employment.

AASTEW, you should have called in sick. If you are injured, that is what the policy is there for. I for one appreciate your dedication (or what ever reason you showed up for).

[post="237864"][/post]​

Without you knowing each individual case of the sick calls it is WRONG to call your fellow AA employees liars.

I'm sure that some people still abuse the sick leave policy but to call YOUR fellow AA employees liars is an overreaction.

 

[Mach85ER]

There was a big huff a few years ago, when the pilots wanted to have access to cabin (FA) jump seats as well as the cockpit jumpseat.

[post="236303"][/post]​

Another FA false rumor that has never died.

The only "huff" there has been and may still continue is resistance to the Captain placing a pilot jumpseater in a seat/cabin of the CA's choice that is empty at departure.

Your FA jumpseats are yours period. (I do think you should get agreements with other airlines too)

 

[Mach85ER]

So, next time you think that full litre of water bottle is yours, look at that paperwork.

pay attention,

Coop

[post="236117"][/post]​

Everytime I've looked at the paperwork, it says that Captain is in total command of the flight. Dehaydration is a safety of flight issue.

If catering starts storing the H2O in th cockpit, then we will be able to drink all we want and still have enough to shove into our crewbags for later use at the hotel work out room. We then be able to fight the FA's and tell them, "tough, you only get .5 liter". 😀

 

[Garfield1966]

Without you knowing each individual case of the sick calls it is WRONG to call your fellow AA employees liars.

I'm sure that some people still abuse the sick leave policy but to call YOUR fellow AA employees liars is an overreaction.

[post="237910"][/post]​

So by that same line of reasoning since I do not know each individual is speeding on the freeway then it would be wrong to say that people speed on the freeway? Since I do not know when a politician is lying, to say that politicians are in general, dishonest?

It's simple statistics Boeing. It is virtually impossible for the sick to nearly double (more than likely in all operational work groups) just before the holiday and end just afterward. I do not need to know each individual case. All I am saying is that at the very least 1 out of 3 people on the sick list was not sick. It’s simple math.

Flyddcoop,

If you would have read the last paragraph I said to AASTEW that if He/She was sick, they should have stayed home. That is what the policy is there for. I do not begrudge you or anyone else for being on the sick list when you are legitimately sick.

Please read the end of the second paragraph. I acknowledged that it happens in all departments (including my own). I did not just single your work group.

 

[flydcoop]

Everytime I've looked at the paperwork, it says that Captain is in total command of the flight. Dehaydration is a safety of flight issue.

If catering starts storing the H2O in th cockpit, then we will be able to drink all we want and still have enough to shove into our crewbags for later use at the hotel work out room. We then be able to fight the FA's and tell them, "tough, you only get .5 liter". 😀

[post="237956"][/post]​

Yes, the Captain is in total command of the flight but that doesn't mean you put on the A**hole hat.

I swear, I stay in St. Louis for a reason, you could learn so much from these guys.

"Have you eaten today?" goes a long way. It's a thoughtfulness that most AA cockpits don't possess.

I really don't know how so many of you survived the military with your demands.

I am sure your CO understood your dehydration dilemma.

You are as bad as the PL and AG that nearly got into a fist-fight on my flight last week...over shuffled cards! I just look into the cabin and think "these people run companies, and they think I'm a moron".

I got into it with an LAX cockpit where the F/O claimed possible dehydration on a 40 minute flight from LAS (because of the .5 bottle of cockpit water). LAX pax drink a lot of water.

If I have it, it is yours.

Our problem is we have spoiled you.

When you upgrade OA pilots without asking us if we have eaten, that is betrayal.

Wow, did you just admit you took company property off a plane?

For your workgroup, it doesn't matter...

and you wonder why it is always open-season on pilots :blink:

Coop

SLT

 

[Mach85ER]

When you upgrade OA pilots without asking us if we have eaten, that is betrayal.

[post="238298"][/post]​

Are you aware that at nearly every other airline in the US, the pilots do not have to ask the F/A's if a jumpseater can be seated in First Class? Your allegation that somehow AA pilot's are spoiled is hilarious.

Classic AA FA material.

 

[flydcoop]

Are you aware that at nearly every other airline in the US, the pilots do not have to ask the F/A's if a jumpseater can be seated in First Class? Your allegation that somehow AA pilot's are spoiled is hilarious.

You have a sense of entitlement...leave me alone.

Classic AA FA material.

[post="238487"][/post]​

No, I believe I proved my point as you did.

You obviously have an issue with F/As.

I can call out your BS...



Coop

SLT

 

[Mach85ER]

You have a sense of entitlement...leave me alone.

[post="238576"][/post]​

No sense of an "entitlement" here. Just requesting that our contract be respected as much as yours, and we can treat our OA jumpseaters with the same respect and courtesy that they supply us nearly every flight

You obviously have an issue with F/As.

I can call out your BS...

[post="238576"][/post]​

Not really, in my career at AA, I have literally carried several thousand pounds of FA bags up and down caribbean airstairs as well as MAD,LHR and CDG. I have delayed flights for FA meals as well as "upgrade" FA's to the pilot crew rest seat even when directly told do not do it. A week later I dealt with legions of angry FA "wizard of Oz flying monkeys" when I upgraded a couple of coach pax. Apparently they weren't on the FA "approved" list like the one the week before.

I support you group getting OA jumpseats for F/A's. Unlike a certain percentage of your group, I would feel honored getting a UAL.NWA, ect, a F/C ride somewhere, in the best seat in the house.

I get a kick out of the SLT Captain compliments. The TWA guys have been shocked at what AA pilots have put up with. Apparently, during their problems, they never let go of Captain's authority nor the aquired skill in managing it. My hats off to them.


Later,

It's a day off

 

[flydcoop]

A week later I dealt with legions of angry FA "wizard of Oz flying monkeys" when I upgraded a couple of coach pax. Apparently they weren't on the FA "approved" list like the one the week before.


That probably was a result of waiting for leftover food. We don't get crew meals and that is the fault of our union...not yours. We had crew meals for perhaps a nano-second and even then the stars had to be aligned precisely...they were usually aligned at the wrong time.

It didn't matter when we actually served food and had so many leftovers that it wasn't a problem.

However, you would have a real issue if I did not have enough meals and offered the coach class upgrades yours.

Afterall, you just want to return the "favor" from OAs.

Just a hypothetical but do not be upgrading people willy-nilly fer cryin' out loud!

Regarding SLT/STL, the Captain had ultimate authority but TWA has not adjusted to our culture very well.

I flew with these guys exclusively for 8 months. I am very protective of them...it was very ugly in the beginning but we sorted it out.

I still remember my very first trip out of STL (TWA certificate). It wasn't pretty.

Coop

SLT

 

[Mach85ER]

That probably was a result of waiting for leftover food.

Nope, it was before APFA gave up the meals. It was one those "power trips", with the inability to accept the respectful request of the Captain. It happens more than a few times at AA.

However, you would have a real issue if I did not have enough meals and offered the coach class upgrades yours.

Afterall, you just want to return the "favor" from OAs.

coop,
From a few posts I'm not sure you fully understand our jumpseat agreement and the how riders are treated at nearly every other company. It's understood by all riders that food doesn't come with the ride automatically, every j/s I have ever had onboard knew that in terms of food, they come right before the trash bin and not much above that. It's water and soda's, that's it unless the working crew has extra's which is doubtful these days.. I have never heard one complaint otherwise, and anyone j/s who does is a complete fool. Even on a 9 hour Int'l flight they should be told not to expect anything, and had better load up on Toberlone bars from duty free.

Just a hypothetical but do not be upgrading people willy-nilly fer cryin' out loud!

3 people in 15 years, one who was an AA FA who I had never seen before nor have seen again, could not be considered "willy-nilly". I do agree.

Regarding SLT/STL, the Captain had ultimate authority but TWA has not adjusted to our culture very well.

AA Captains have the same "ultimate" authority. It's use is very inconsistent with many of our Captains, and usually someone will excercise the authority if they see a leadership void up front, even the FA's. From what I've heard, TWA had a more consistent level of Captain's leadership. Usually it's easier to operate as a subordinate in the enviroment. I know, I'm a FO again.

 

[flydcoop]

I also said that "the stars had to be properly aligned for us to get meals.


I also remember a trip when I was full in First and everyone ate. The cockpit requested I give any left-over meals to the J/S (pre-9/11). I sweetly replied that I was out of meals but feel free to give up one of your crew-meals, it didn't happen. So much for "giving back for upgrading on your airline".

Coop

SLT

Nope, it was before APFA gave up the meals. It was one those "power trips", with the inability to accept the respectful request of the Captain. It happens more than a few times at AA.
coop,
From a few posts I'm not sure you fully understand our jumpseat agreement and the how riders are treated at nearly every other company. It's understood by all riders that food doesn't come with the ride automatically, every j/s I have ever had onboard knew that in terms of food, they come right before the trash bin and not much above that. It's water and soda's, that's it unless the working crew has extra's which is doubtful these days.. I have never heard one complaint otherwise, and anyone j/s who does is a complete fool. Even on a 9 hour Int'l flight they should be told not to expect anything, and had better load up on Toberlone bars from duty free.
3 people in 15 years, one who was an AA FA who I had never seen before nor have seen again, could not be considered "willy-nilly". I do agree.
AA Captains have the same "ultimate" authority. It's use is very inconsistent with many of our Captains, and usually someone will excercise the authority if they see a leadership void up front, even the FA's. From what I've heard, TWA had a more consistent level of Captain's leadership. Usually it's easier to operate as a subordinate in the enviroment. I know, I'm a FO again.

[post="239498"][/post]​

 

[Mach85ER]

The cockpit requested I give any left-over meals to the J/S (pre-9/11). I sweetly replied that I was out of meals but feel free to give up one of your crew-meals, it didn't happen. So much for "giving back for upgrading on your airline".

Coop

SLT

[post="240032"][/post]​

The above looks perfectly clear to me, the cockpit said "left-over" meals. In the jumpseat world, that means left-over food AFTER the F/A's get their picks. If there seems to be a question, directly tell the Captain you're light on food and his FA crew needs the leftovers. If he says the J/S get food over the F/A's, (hard to believe), call APFA proff std's and call APA poff stds. Directly feeding a J/S instead of a working F/A should not be tolerated.

I guess you still think it is an "upgrade". Again it's not. The general industry standard is we try to give our J/S "guests" the best of the "left-overs" that would otherwise go to waste. Whether that is a seat, or a meal, a J/S just uses something that would go empty or be thrown away anyways. Describing it as something else, like an "upgrade", is inaccurate. APA literally paid for it in negotiations in lieu of some other contract item. We "paid" for an expectation of the jumpseating industry standard.

Here is a thought. Next FA negotiations, get yourselves reciprical FA jumpseat agreements with other carriers. It will cost you something, but you could drag yourselves up a level in benefits instead of trying to drag another group down to yours. Good luck, had one FA that hated the pilot J/S idea, I said her group could get the same thing but it will cost something. She said "I'm not paying for it" and went right back into arguing against what we paid for.

 

[eolesen]

I guess you still think it is an "upgrade". Again it's not. The general industry standard is we try to give our J/S "guests" the best of the "left-overs" that would otherwise go to waste. Whether that is a seat, or a meal, a J/S just uses something that would go empty or be thrown away anyways. Describing it as something else, like an "upgrade", is inaccurate. APA literally paid for it in negotiations in lieu of some other contract item. We "paid" for an expectation of the jumpseating industry standard.

[post="240042"][/post]​

From a customer service standpoint, I know customers disagree with your viewpoint here.

Ask any Platinum, Exec Platinum, etc. riding in a premium cabin if they would rather have an empty seat next to them, or be seated next to a jumpseating pilot who didn't pay for the seat. 11 times out of 10, they'll tell you they want the extra space.

And believe me, they know who the jumpseaters are.