AA........Menage A Trois

[MCI transplant]

There's a distinction worthy of a medal.... At the end of the day, if you've raped and demoralized your workforce, it doesn't really matter if you post a paper profit or not. And it won't do much for your future credit rating.

Once contracts are gutted and payments on debt stop, it's just an accounting exercise on whether or not you want to turn a profit or not on paper.

Profit or not, NWA is still a failed company that had to retreat behind the bankruptcy laws instead of taking the honorable route and paying their debts.

<_< ----- FM, I really didn't think you were that naive! Honor has nothing to do with Big Business running to the BK courts to gut Union Contracts, and, or, Pensions! Lorenzo, and Ichan, did it in the 80's! And who got up in front of the Harvard Business Collage and gave his infamies "Greed is Good" speech? So what makes you think todays CEO's are any different? 😉

 

[Oneflyer]

<_< ----- FM, I really didn't think you were that naive! Honor has nothing to do with Big Business running to the BK courts to gut Union Contracts, and, or, Pensions! Lorenzo, and Ichan, did it in the 80's! And who got up in front of the Harvard Business Collage and gave his infamies "Greed is Good" speech? So what makes you think todays CEO's are any different? 😉

Uh, Greed is good or perhaps you like to live in Cuba?

 

[Hackman]

Uh, Greed is good or perhaps you like to live in Cuba?

Greed is good, except when you continuously have to lie and cheat by screwing your employees over to keep that greedy pile of green growing for yourself.

I guess the Enron debacle wasn't lost on you.... 🙄

 

[Oneflyer]

Greed is good, except when you continuously have to lie and cheat by screwing your employees over to keep that greedy pile of green growing for yourself.

I guess the Enron debacle wasn't lost on you.... 🙄

I said greed was good.

I didn't say lying or cheating was good.


Comparing AMR to the excesses at Enron is stretch, their not in the same league. Enron was a mjor league scam, AMR management bonuses is single A stuff.

 

[nbmcg01]

I said greed was good.

I didn't say lying or cheating was good.
Comparing AMR to the excesses at Enron is stretch, their not in the same league. Enron was a mjor league scam, AMR management bonuses is single A stuff.

Perhaps AA Senior Management should read and study, "Exceeding Customer Expectations" by Kirk Kazanjian. The CEO of Enterprise equates treating both the external and internal customer well so that they feel that their expectations have been exceeded as the formula for building customer(and employee) loyalty. You cannot be financially successful if the internal customer (employee) does not feel valued. He states that it was a whole new mindset for him that was more than rewarded in profits. Hummmm......

 

[Oneflyer]

Perhaps AA Senior Management should read and study, "Exceeding Customer Expectations" by Kirk Kazanjian. The CEO of Enterprise equates treating both the external and internal customer well so that they feel that their expectations have been exceeded as the formula for building customer(and employee) loyalty. You cannot be financially successful if the internal customer (employee) does not feel valued. He states that it was a whole new mindset for him that was more than rewarded in profits. Hummmm......

AA front line management training is pretty abysmal, reference the AUS GM that couldn't get his head out of the manual for 8 hours while passengers were stuck on the tarmac.

 

[MCI transplant]

Uh, Greed is good or perhaps you like to live in Cuba?

<_< ----- Oneflyer, I'll give you another quote from Uncle Carl! "If you want a friend, buy a dog!" That goes for you in spads, at least on this board!

 

[Bob Owens]

I said greed was good.

I didn't say lying or cheating was good.
Comparing AMR to the excesses at Enron is stretch, their not in the same league. Enron was a mjor league scam, AMR management bonuses is single A stuff.

Same scam, different approach.

Enron scamed their employees by having them buy company stock that was overvalued. They lied to them and everyone else by making it appear that the compnay was doing better than it actually was. They did this in order to get their money. At AA they made it appear that the company was worse off than it actually was, again, they did this in order to get their money.

The only reason why the executives at ENRON got in trouble is because in the processthey ripped off stockholder, AA will get away with it because they only ripped off the employees.

 

[AirwAr]

...
At AA they made it appear that the company was worse off than it actually was, again, they did this in order to get their money.
...

Are you saying that AA wouldn't have filed BK if the unions wouldn't have accepted cuts?

Just to make my post relevant to this thread, I like the idea of a Menage A Trois. Would we have to take the scabs though?

 

[Redbone]

And you accuse me of using simplistic logic.
Sounds a lot like what Frank Lorenzo did.

If the reason for NWA’s coming financial success is because they screwed the employees it seems to me that all NWA has is a house of cards. Having read your posts about NWA it’s rather apparent that you have little love for or faith in the head office. Yet you seem to think that they are capable of leading the company to new found riches. Odd.
Yes I realize that all BK’s are different. As I tired to point out to you there is a definite trend when it comes to airlines and BK. But I guess you were to busy drinking the "BK is our salvation" Kool-Aid.
Where to begin. First this statement is an opinion, not a fact. Second, the leadership of NWA that was responsible for all those years of profit are either retired or pushing up daises. In addition those years of profitability mean nothing now don't they. And here’s another tid bit of airline history. At one time Eastern was one of the most profitable airlines in the business.

"First this statement is an opinion, not a fact. Second, the leadership of NWA that was responsible for all those years of profit are either retired or pushing up daises"

FACT/ OPINION...make your mind up?


Actually the statement is fact. Opinion in your mind maybe as many facts appear to be.

NW fortunes changed because of the LBO just as AA's almost did when the Donald set his bulls eye on AA.(you never know who is lurking around the corner...just ask Qantas)

If you think that this crew that has worked NW for brilliant legal theft don't know what their are doing...it's clearly lost on you.

The reasons for NW's coming financial success is irrelevant (my personal opinion was not invited by the BK Judge) what I pointed out IS the outcome. The operation speaks for itself (for whatever reasons employees continue to run a good airline).

Your argument about BK and NW is an ethical one...ethics left American business decades ago. It is despicable the way our government and politicians have allowed companies to use BK. NW should have never been allowed to purposefully burn money in order to enter BK before the laws changed. They were and did.

 

[eolesen]

<_< ----- FM, I really didn't think you were that naive! Honor has nothing to do with Big Business running to the BK courts to gut Union Contracts, and, or, Pensions! Lorenzo, and Ichan, did it in the 80's! And who got up in front of the Harvard Business Collage and gave his infamies "Greed is Good" speech? So what makes you think todays CEO's are any different? 😉

Call me naive if it makes you feel better, but there still is honor and fairness even in business today. Maybe not in union shops or in the big city, but it's certainly alive and well here in the boondocks.

There will always be people like Lorenzo, Icahn, Bronner, and Steeland who will use the letter of the law instead of following the intent of the law, but for the most part they are the exception and not the norm.

 

[Oneflyer]

The only reason why the executives at ENRON got in trouble is because in the processthey ripped off stockholder, AA will get away with it because they only ripped off the employees.

How exactly is giving out $200 million in stock bonuses ripping off the employee but not the stockholder?

 

[Bob Owens]

Are you saying that AA wouldn't have filed BK if the unions wouldn't have accepted cuts?

Just to make my post relevant to this thread, I like the idea of a Menage A Trois. Would we have to take the scabs though?

I'm saying that we got the same or worse staying out of BK than we would have if we went in. Our concessions forced those that were in BK to go for another round. Our concessions were deeper than anything the BK courts had imposed up to that point. AA lowered the bar below what the courts had. That gave the courts the green light to cut even deeper.

Since we ended up with the same or worse, whether or not they would have filed is irrelevant.

Regardless of what the company would have done we should have voted No. As it stands now the only credotors who lost anything at AA are the employees.

Lets say that the unions had said NO and AA went BK, the few others not in BK would have immediately followed. Now every major trunk carrier would be in BK. The next step would have been for the unions to tell the courts that they would not tolerate judicial abuse and the trampling of our rights as per the RLA. Any act by the court to infringe upon the rights given by the RLA would result in politcal protest in the form of a cesation of work by all unionized airline workers across the country.
There is no way we should have allowed one judge to rule awy our rights under the RLA nor should we have tolerated the drawn out appeals process. The fact is even if the decision at NWA to block the FA strike is overturned the company still won, they got away with violating the flight attendants rights.





My guess is that the scabs would be gone because they would not have enough seniority to stay.

 

[Oneflyer]

The next step would have been for the unions to tell the courts that they would not tolerate judicial abuse and the trampling of our rights as per the RLA. Any act by the court to infringe upon the rights given by the RLA would result in politcal protest in the form of a cesation of work by all unionized airline workers across the country.

Pure fantasy.

 

[Bob Owens]

Pure fantasy.

Black people sitting in the front seat on the bus was a fantasy but Dr King had a dream.

But with the leaders of todays unions I agree, even though it happens all the time in Europe.