Aside from layoffs. I think AA is getting ready for the concession and giveback approach to their financial crisis. AA is losing 6 million a day. I think that AA feels layoffs are not enough. Major cuts in wages and benfits are on the horizon. I wonder how far the TWU expects us to bend over in order to save union dues.
AA on the Bandwagon
- Thread starter BeenThere
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Thats one persons guess. AA has said time and again. give backs are not in the cards right now.
They are asking the employees to help reduce costs by showing the management where we are wasting money. We can find more money lowering the zero weight on planes, finding redundancies in what we are doing. Eliminating they wasteful practices.
The employees shouldnt be required to carry the company on there backs. TWU, APA and APFA will not give concessions until every other possible avenue has been explored.
They are asking the employees to help reduce costs by showing the management where we are wasting money. We can find more money lowering the zero weight on planes, finding redundancies in what we are doing. Eliminating they wasteful practices.
The employees shouldnt be required to carry the company on there backs. TWU, APA and APFA will not give concessions until every other possible avenue has been explored.
Been There, Don't be so fatalistic. IMO if one expects pay cuts and we know mgnt reads this forum, then they will give us what we expect. I'm going to fail. I'm going to fail. I'm getting a paycut. I'm getting a paycut. I'm gett... Get the idea
I would rather beleive mgnt says we have to work smarter, we have to work smarter. Paycuts are not neccessarily the answer. WN is about the same payscale as most at AA, yet they are profitable. I don't see any $240 mil name of WN on a basketball arena in Dallas or $175mil name on another basketball arena in Miami. I don't even think WN gave any money to the gayday parde in Dallas like AA did. WN's hometown is in Dallas and AA's home is in FT Worth.
Again it is mgnt's decisions that are most responsible for the money made. The workers just carry out the wishes as mgnt defines them. They tell me not to load late bags ok I don't. Plane arrives missing bags. Not my call here.
Now maybe I can load faster to get the bags out to the plane so they can be loaded, but cutting a worker's pay will not induce him to work faster, harder, smarter, more loyaly or carefully {with bags}, but he may think to work more safely. He may not want to damage an aircraft and drive slower, he may have a little more compassion for the belly loader and put 4 bags on a belt instead of 6 or 7 therby slowing the loading process to a safer level. Some heavy bags would be safer lifted with 2 clerks instead of one, help is not always available and time may be needed to find someone to help lift the heavier bags in a safe manner.
Now if the workforce is genuinely convinced that all the fat is gone from HDQ and has seen mgnt take cuts and not just no bonus here but real cuts. Then maybe he will take his lump of coal.
Pilots fly
FAs safely attend
Agents load and sell tkts
Mechs keep'm flying
ramp loads bags and cargo
Sounds simple they produce the money.
Right now all these analysts at HDG are only trying to save their jobs. I don't blame them. WE have been over-analized for yrs and we are still losing money. Don't cut the producers but the hangers ons.
Some one once said If you want to know the fastest and easiest way to do a job, assign it to the laziest man you know. I guess I rambled on enough already but please Been There don't be so pessimistic..
I would rather beleive mgnt says we have to work smarter, we have to work smarter. Paycuts are not neccessarily the answer. WN is about the same payscale as most at AA, yet they are profitable. I don't see any $240 mil name of WN on a basketball arena in Dallas or $175mil name on another basketball arena in Miami. I don't even think WN gave any money to the gayday parde in Dallas like AA did. WN's hometown is in Dallas and AA's home is in FT Worth.
Again it is mgnt's decisions that are most responsible for the money made. The workers just carry out the wishes as mgnt defines them. They tell me not to load late bags ok I don't. Plane arrives missing bags. Not my call here.
Now maybe I can load faster to get the bags out to the plane so they can be loaded, but cutting a worker's pay will not induce him to work faster, harder, smarter, more loyaly or carefully {with bags}, but he may think to work more safely. He may not want to damage an aircraft and drive slower, he may have a little more compassion for the belly loader and put 4 bags on a belt instead of 6 or 7 therby slowing the loading process to a safer level. Some heavy bags would be safer lifted with 2 clerks instead of one, help is not always available and time may be needed to find someone to help lift the heavier bags in a safe manner.
Now if the workforce is genuinely convinced that all the fat is gone from HDQ and has seen mgnt take cuts and not just no bonus here but real cuts. Then maybe he will take his lump of coal.
Pilots fly
FAs safely attend
Agents load and sell tkts
Mechs keep'm flying
ramp loads bags and cargo
Sounds simple they produce the money.
Right now all these analysts at HDG are only trying to save their jobs. I don't blame them. WE have been over-analized for yrs and we are still losing money. Don't cut the producers but the hangers ons.
Some one once said If you want to know the fastest and easiest way to do a job, assign it to the laziest man you know. I guess I rambled on enough already but please Been There don't be so pessimistic..
Donations and concessions are two very different animals. Don't you think?
I have not read anywhere where US and UA have asked employees to give what they could afford.
I have not read anywhere where US and UA have asked employees to give what they could afford.
Has anyone forgotten that AA was the first to ask for concessions when the first round of layoffs occurred? Lets not forget the fact that D.C. asked employees to give a certain percentage ( Whatever they could afford ) back to the company. I am sure this will happen again. Those that say that AA will not ask for concessions should look at what happened in the beginning. It's only a matter of time!
Obviously costs are one thing to attack, and airlines are attempting to do so with furloughs, route cutbacks, etc. But, what is being done to improve revenue? Judging from some of the low fares out there, even on AA, not much is being done to improve revenue. Or am I mistaken?
- Thread Starter
- #7
You have to consider the amount of $$$$$$$$$ AA is bleeding. I don't think wages and benefits will be spared the ax.
DFWCC
I don't like reading long posts, but enjoyed yours. Logical, sensible and cool-headed. We need more of that around here. Thanks.
I don't like reading long posts, but enjoyed yours. Logical, sensible and cool-headed. We need more of that around here. Thanks.
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On 10/22/2002 1:41:08 PM DFWCC wrote:
Now if the workforce is genuinely convinced that all the fat is gone from HDQ and has seen mgnt take cuts and not just no bonus; here but real cuts. Then maybe he will take his lump of coal.
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Just to set the record straight...
HDQ mgmt endured a 15% layoff with everyone else at the end of last year, of which none have been recalled. We are currently undergoing another round of layoffs which will amount to another 5%. None of us have received a cost of living increase in the past two years, nor have we received profit sharing - we won't receive either in 2003. (As you know, the TWU reaps the benefits of contractual increases, steps, and better pay w/o profit sharing regardless of economic downturns.)
Personally, all of this means that: (1) I am fortunate to have a job, and (2) I am earning about 20% less than I would have in normal times. It does not mean that I am doing less work. In fact, I'm doing more, because HDQ work does not necessarily decrease w/ capacity. I have to admit that it bugs me that I will have to continue living in this state because some of my fellow employees are dragging their heels.
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On 10/22/2002 1:41:08 PM DFWCC wrote:
Now if the workforce is genuinely convinced that all the fat is gone from HDQ and has seen mgnt take cuts and not just no bonus; here but real cuts. Then maybe he will take his lump of coal.
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[/blockquote]
Just to set the record straight...
HDQ mgmt endured a 15% layoff with everyone else at the end of last year, of which none have been recalled. We are currently undergoing another round of layoffs which will amount to another 5%. None of us have received a cost of living increase in the past two years, nor have we received profit sharing - we won't receive either in 2003. (As you know, the TWU reaps the benefits of contractual increases, steps, and better pay w/o profit sharing regardless of economic downturns.)
Personally, all of this means that: (1) I am fortunate to have a job, and (2) I am earning about 20% less than I would have in normal times. It does not mean that I am doing less work. In fact, I'm doing more, because HDQ work does not necessarily decrease w/ capacity. I have to admit that it bugs me that I will have to continue living in this state because some of my fellow employees are dragging their heels.
connected, Who is dragging there feet, How and Why?
You really can't go on the TWU guys for getting a step increase. The reason they get it, is because they started a lower pay then there counter parts doing the same job. I know they dont have that at HDQ.
I start at 10 dollars an hour. They hire someone else to do the same job with me for 5 dollars an hour. Yet they will get a yearly .50 pay increase for the next 10 years till we are matched up in pay. You can not consider pay step increases. Those people are already doing the same job as you and I at a substantial discount to AA
You really can't go on the TWU guys for getting a step increase. The reason they get it, is because they started a lower pay then there counter parts doing the same job. I know they dont have that at HDQ.
I start at 10 dollars an hour. They hire someone else to do the same job with me for 5 dollars an hour. Yet they will get a yearly .50 pay increase for the next 10 years till we are matched up in pay. You can not consider pay step increases. Those people are already doing the same job as you and I at a substantial discount to AA
1AA
Veteran
Hey Micky, you apparently do not know the TWU and Mr. Jim Little too well. Our contracts have been concessions for the last 20 years. How you like them apples?
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On 10/23/2002 12
11 PM 1AA wrote:
Hey Micky, you apparently do not know the TWU and Mr. Jim Little too well. Our contracts have been concessions for the last 20 years. How you like them apples?
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Well I never said anything that your contract, were or were not concessionary. I do know the TWU. I was a former member. To blame the TWU for 20 years of concessions is wrong. You should have stood up and said no more, or broke free from them as the flight attendants did 25 years ago.
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On 10/23/2002 12
11 PM 1AA wrote: Hey Micky, you apparently do not know the TWU and Mr. Jim Little too well. Our contracts have been concessions for the last 20 years. How you like them apples?
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Well I never said anything that your contract, were or were not concessionary. I do know the TWU. I was a former member. To blame the TWU for 20 years of concessions is wrong. You should have stood up and said no more, or broke free from them as the flight attendants did 25 years ago.
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On 10/23/2002 12:17:10 PM FA Mikey wrote:
connected, Who is dragging there feet, How and Why?
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I shouldn't have said are dragging their feet. I should have said are threatening to drag their feet. I was responding to the assertion by DFW CC that there would be a coordinated effort to slow down work if concessions were obtained (or proposed?).
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On 10/23/2002 12:17:10 PM FA Mikey wrote:
You really can't go on the TWU guys for getting a step increase.
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Step increases are fair. They serve a purpose. However, I am saying that HDQ mgmt is not getting their version of step increases or contract increases. I am just trying to highlight that in some cases, HDQ mgmt is bearing as much or more of the sacrifice right now. Concessions, if obtained, would only serve to bring our unionized labor groups in line with the rest of the company.
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On 10/23/2002 12:17:10 PM FA Mikey wrote:
connected, Who is dragging there feet, How and Why?
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I shouldn't have said are dragging their feet. I should have said are threatening to drag their feet. I was responding to the assertion by DFW CC that there would be a coordinated effort to slow down work if concessions were obtained (or proposed?).
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On 10/23/2002 12:17:10 PM FA Mikey wrote:
You really can't go on the TWU guys for getting a step increase.
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[/blockquote]
Step increases are fair. They serve a purpose. However, I am saying that HDQ mgmt is not getting their version of step increases or contract increases. I am just trying to highlight that in some cases, HDQ mgmt is bearing as much or more of the sacrifice right now. Concessions, if obtained, would only serve to bring our unionized labor groups in line with the rest of the company.
Connected1 writes:
I have to admit that it bugs me that I will have to continue living in this state because some of my fellow employees are dragging their heels.
I wasn't dragging my heals until Carty volunteered a bunch of TWAer's to go ahead of me on the seniority list. I will vote no on any concessions, and will vote no on any contract TWU negotiates.
I have to admit that it bugs me that I will have to continue living in this state because some of my fellow employees are dragging their heels.
I wasn't dragging my heals until Carty volunteered a bunch of TWAer's to go ahead of me on the seniority list. I will vote no on any concessions, and will vote no on any contract TWU negotiates.
1AA
Veteran
I'm not even going to get started on this issue. It is a dead end street. The only way to break free from the TWU is to quit AA and go elsewhere.
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