AA pilots

[Duke787]

A pilot tells me how over worked he is. Then I think how after we takeoff he is going to come out of the cockpit sit in first class and sleep for two hours then the next pilot will sleep for two hours then then next one. When we get to the UK, we will lay over for 24hrs then the pilots will do their same breaks on the way back to the USA. After we get back, we will have 3 days off and do another trip. Some pilots need to get a grip.

If you are going to complain about being tired, don't commute to work on the day you have to fly.

 

[Tex-Mech]

A pilot tells me how over worked he is. Then I think how after we takeoff he is going to come out of the cockpit sit in first class and sleep for two hours then the next pilot will sleep for two hours then then next one. When we get to the UK, we will lay over for 24hrs then the pilots will do their same breaks on the way back to the USA. After we get back, we will have 3 days off and do another trip. Some pilots need to get a grip.

If you are going to complain about being tired, don't commute to work on the day you have to fly.

I can certainly feel sorry for him having to put in a full 8 hours of crossword puzzles, naps, and whatever else(NWA pilots). I guess my past week of actual manual labor of 6--12 hours days, and 1--16 hour day was nothing compared to his. <_<

 

[Mach85ER]

A pilot tells me how over worked he is.

Sounds a little like the usual anti-pilot populist anecdote not uncommon on this board.

In what context did he make the statement? Was he a senior european lineholder or a junior FB getting the first break (not much sleep from 7-9 pm), does he usually only hold "deep south" trips? More than a few possibilties to add on to the story. I would agree that a significant commute would negate any sympathy for the situation, especially if the person has the seniority to bid off.

 

[Duke787]

Sounds a little like the usual anti-pilot populist anecdote not uncommon on this board.

In what context did he make the statement? Was he a senior european lineholder or a junior FB getting the first break (not much sleep from 7-9 pm), does he usually only hold "deep south" trips? More than a few possibilties to add on to the story. I would agree that a significant commute would negate any sympathy for the situation, especially if the person has the seniority to bid off.

I think any pilot who complains about working 12hrs on a 3 day trip ORD-LHR, then having 3 days off is just a whiner in any context. I have no sympathy for any pilot or f/a who commute then complain how tired they are, AA bends over backwards for them. Nobody makes them commute. I've seen pilots and f/a's race off the plane before the passengers and feel justified, because they are commuters, turn off the lights in mini-ops so they can sleep, because they are commuters, expect to get third break all the time, because they are commuters, board the plane before the passengers and other non-revs on the their commuter flight, because they are commuters. This isn't a usual anti-pilot anecdote, this anti commuter whiner rant.

For you pilots and f/a who commute and don't complain or don't expect special treatment, please disregard, and thank you for your service, you are a credit to your profession.

 

[Skymess]

I think any pilot who complains about working 12hrs on a 3 day trip ORD-LHR, then having 3 days off is just a whiner in any context. I have no sympathy for any pilot or f/a who commute then complain how tired they are, AA bends over backwards for them. Nobody makes them commute. I've seen pilots and f/a's race off the plane before the passengers and feel justified, because they are commuters, turn off the lights in mini-ops so they can sleep, because they are commuters, expect to get third break all the time, because they are commuters, board the plane before the passengers and other non-revs on the their commuter flight, because they are commuters. This isn't a usual anti-pilot anecdote, this anti commuter whiner rant.

For you pilots and f/a who commute and don't complain or don't expect special treatment, please disregard, and thank you for your service, you are a credit to your profession.

I have to agree with Duke.

To the annoying commuters: Commuting is a choice. Your choice=your problem. The rest of us who pay higher money to live in our base cities and commute by car/train/bus to work don't want to hear how tired you are, how much you hate the cities we live in, and how you got a pass for missing a few flights to work during a snow storm while we didn't because the highway we were driving on was shut down because of an accident. We also don't want to sit around and finish your job when you rush off the plane to catch your commuter flight while we say goodbye to the pax and sit waiting for the wheelchairs/strollers and miss the bus to the parking lot or the bus to the city.

I also applaud the commuters who don't fall into the annoying commuter category and who do it in a professional way. I know how hard it is to commute because it wastes a lot of time in your life that you will never get back and I admire those who do it without complaint and without pushing their work off on someone else.

 

[Mach85ER]

This isn't a usual anti-pilot anecdote, this anti commuter whiner rant.

Sorry, I must have missed the part where you addressed other employee groups in your first post.

I'll read it again just in in I missed something the first time 🙄

 

[TWU informer]

Anti-Pilot Humans seem to change their opinion when the aircraft hits a flock of birds killing both power plants on a twin engine aircraft and the Pilot ditches the plane in a river with everyone still alive.

Funny how when your life is in the hands of the guy at the controls your concerns about skill, pay, and productivity fly out the window.

 

[eolesen]

The comments about commuters are spot on -- one one hand you have pilots insisting on crew augmentation, bunks, etc. when the flight is 1 minute over what's in the contract, and then those same crew members don't think twice about the two hour flight from their dream home in Colorado/Utah/Arizona/Florida, and arriving two or three hours before their sign-in time.

Just so you don't think it's all about pilots, I also have a problem with the FSC's and agents who think it's OK to work double shifts, and then complain about being overworked. If you do it to yourself, don't go complaining to the company.

Personally, I like the concept Jetblue has --- no commuters. Hard to enforce, perhaps, but it does give the comany reason to fire someone if they have a problem...

 

[oldbscaler]

As a JFK commuter who lives in PIT, I can tell you there are hundreds of B6 commuter from PIT alone. They may well have a commuter policy as well, but I am not sure. Jetblue has loads of commuters, they are not required to live in base.
Dennis

 

[Mach85ER]

The comments about commuters are spot on -- one one hand you have pilots insisting on crew augmentation, bunks, etc. when the flight is 1 minute over what's in the contract, and then those same crew members don't think twice about the two hour flight from their dream home in Colorado/Utah/Arizona/Florida, and arriving two or three hours before their sign-in time.

Just so you don't think it's all about pilots, I also have a problem with the FSC's and agents who think it's OK to work double shifts, and then complain about being overworked. If you do it to yourself, don't go complaining to the company.

Personally, I like the concept Jetblue has --- no commuters. Hard to enforce, perhaps, but it does give the comany reason to fire someone if they have a problem...

eolesen,

I think most posters basically agree that nobody wants to carry anothers workload because that person chooses to commute. What also doesn't translate well at all is one employee group complaining about their workload to a member from another group. After 20 years, I can assure you that no matter how valid a pilot complaint might be, it will only be understood about .5% of the time by a FA. In this particular instance, if the complainer was a lineholding Europe pilot, I would agree with the poster, especially if his fatigue partly came from commuting.

I will correct you on you perception of crew augmentation and bunks. That isn't contract stuff, it's FAA Regulations that are black and white. like it or not, 1 minute might as well be 5 hours when it comes to the FEDS. In the past a "certain airline, with initials located very high in the alphabet" played games with the Regs requiring 3 pilots in a couple of cases.

One was flight planning a B767 at Vmo (redline speed) at FL240 for 7:59 to HNL with two pilots (your 1 minute example). A "certain pilots union" raised the BS flag with valid safety issues regarding unknown turbulence and general weather reporting at that altitude. Another was playing the 1 minute game over the North Atlantic. The pilots had been carefully reporting delay codes for each minute on the typical flight from City "C" to city "G". While most every flight in a year would exceed 8 hours, a certain planner used the delay history to subtract minutes to get under 8 hours saying it was legal since we don't plan flights for delays. Any guesses as to how many delay codes are entered today?

The bunks are another FAA Reg. They have to be supplied over 12 hours I believe. Carty in his infinite wisdom had some 777's delivered without pilot bunks even though the space and equipment was all there. An Atlantic jet couldn't be used for Asia. The facilities have to be adequate also. Delta had a diversion due to problems of the bunks on the MD11's. Right or wrong , they were fixed not long after that instance.


Every pilot has to weigh their commute and whether they are fit for duty. There have been plenty of times I wish I'd been sitting on an airplane reading a book commuting to duty instead of dealing with household issues at my house about 1 hour from the airport. I would have gotten more rest commuting.

 

[eolesen]

Individual pilot contracts may define what is adequate, but the only FAA requirement under either Part 91, 121, or 135 that I'm aware of is flights exceeding 12 hours must provide "adequate rest facility" for the augmented crew.

Aside from the added privacy, I'm not sure what real advantages you get from the bunk vs. a true 90* lie-flat seat (not that AA offers this, but other airlines do).

 

[FWAAA]

Aside from the added privacy, I'm not sure what real advantages you get from the bunk vs. a true 90* lie-flat seat (not that AA offers this, but other airlines do).

Don't forget that AA does offer this on every 777 (the only AA plane with pilot bunks). Since day one, all AA 777s have featured true lie-flat horizontal to the floor First Class seats. Not long after the first 777 was delivered to AA, the company began replacing the pairs of lie-flat seats with the Flagship Suites on some aircraft, but both styles were completely flat. Now, of course, all AA 777s feature the suites.

 

[eolesen]

You're right... It's been so long since I've been on an AA 777, I'd forgotten about the F cabin.

 

[Duke787]

Sorry, I must have missed the part where you addressed other employee groups in your first post.

I'll read it again just in in I missed something the first time 🙄

I think that was covered when I mentioned how the "pilot" was complaining. If the "f/a" was complaining, I would have said the "f/a" was complaing. Don't be so defensive.

 

[Duke787]

Anti-Pilot Humans seem to change their opinion when the aircraft hits a flock of birds killing both power plants on a twin engine aircraft and the Pilot ditches the plane in a river with everyone still alive.

Funny how when your life is in the hands of the guy at the controls your concerns about skill, pay, and productivity fly out the window.

Who said anything about pay, skill, or work rules, I mentioned about a pilot complaining about being overworked and tired on a 3 day ORD-LHR trip. Then saying he shouldn't complain of being tired if he is going to commute on the day he has to fly.

The pilots we have are very good and I feel completely comfortable flying with any of them. No pilots no airline, just like we can't do without mechanics, agents, f/a's, ramp workers and even HQ people.

Don't make this work group against work group argument, but a regular worker against a whiner.

Remember none of us are forced to work at AA. You applied to work at AA.