aa recall question

[StraaightTaalk]

I;m really glad I do not have a clue because if you believe you have the authority to tell someone not to discuss something then you are way out of line. Quote, "Its not up to the TWA F/As to discuss something of that sort..."

It's you who typically tries to stifle any sort of dissenting opinions from Naatives with insults and accusations. What a hypocrite.

You're all over the place, gramps. There is no logic to your arguments. You do your best to manipulate and twist words and phrasing, but you are just not that good at it.

 

[L1011Ret]

It's you who typically tries to stifle any sort of dissenting opinions from Naatives with insults and accusations. What a hypocrite.

You're all over the place, gramps. There is no logic to your arguments. You do your best to manipulate and twist words and phrasing, but you are just not that good at it.

The best you can do is name call and insult. You refuse to address what has been posted.

 

[jimntx]

Would both of you please avail yourselves of the "Send Message" feature and spare the rest of us your catfight? You both are beginning to sound like a couple of 6 year olds.

You stink!
No, you do!
No, you do! And I said it first.
Well, you stink more.
No, I don't.
Yes, you do.

ad infinitum et ad nauseum

 

[L1011Ret]

Then don't bother reading them!

 

[Maark767]

Because the furloughed have already paid over $600,000,000 for the right to come back. This is an honest answer. It is called the ultimate concession. AA gave pay seniority, much to John Ward's dismay. (which is why he gave up furlough pay for NOTHING) When AA acquired Air Cal and TransCarib they were given a choice of pay or bidding seniority. They chose bidding and won pay in court. The ones that have fallen off were already at the lowest level of "B" scale. How much lower would you propose? The highest paid are pretty much back. With negotiations coming up you probably don't want to alienate another block of voters. We learned along time ago that peace on the property is job one when it come to negotiations. Those back are managing quite well and probably have more time off on reserve then some of you holding 4 leg turn lines. When our bids were bad, reserve tended to go senior. (but then we had 12 day (in a row) spreads. Has one person (other than Bill) suggested (on this board) that ANYTHING be given up for extended recall? No.

Hey no 4 leg turns here.... and Air Cal and Transcarib - It was a difffernet era .... Times have changed ... also those airlines did not have 5000 plus F/As to be granted senority.
Boy it sounds like TWA had the best contract.... so many things we dont have here...gee !!!!

 

[nbmcg01]

Hey no 4 leg turns here.... and Air Cal and Transcarib - It was a difffernet era .... Times have changed ... also those airlines did not have 5000 plus F/As to be granted senority.
Boy it sounds like TWA had the best contract.... so many things we dont have here...gee !!!!

Some better, some not. The point was being made that even on reserve those recalled are having a good time being back and the passenger comments are beginning to reflect their enthusiasm.

4000 into 20,000 with 1500 of those being very junior. Big deal. (and a good portion of the rest wishing to remain in either STL or NY).
The number and seniority ratio were the same as TWA-OZ and it just wasn't that big of a deal. I never looked at my bids and said, "If we had stapled OZ to the bottom, I would have been able to hold that trip". But that is a moot point because the recalls are making the best of a long awaited recall.

Times have changes? Interesting because usually we hear, "It has ALWAYS been done that way"...lol

Look, no fight here, I hope that the f/as will be proactive and vote for Dixie Daniels for the domestic negotiating team. It never hurts to have new thoughts and ideas when you're negotiating in a concessionary labor environment.

 

[Maark767]

Some better, some not. The point was being made that even on reserve those recalled are having a good time being back and the passenger comments are beginning to reflect their enthusiasm.

4000 into 20,000 with 1500 of those being very junior. Big deal. (and a good portion of the rest wishing to remain in either STL or NY).
The number and seniority ratio were the same as TWA-OZ and it just wasn't that big of a deal. I never looked at my bids and said, "If we had stapled OZ to the bottom, I would have been able to hold that trip". But that is a moot point because the recalls are making the best of a long awaited recall.

Times have changes? Interesting because usually we hear, "It has ALWAYS been done that way"...lol

Look, no fight here, I hope that the f/as will be proactive and vote for Dixie Daniels for the domestic negotiating team. It never hurts to have new thoughts and ideas when you're negotiating in a concessionary labor environment.

I agree we need some new blood for new negotiations and people seem to keep bringing up Dixie's name so I'm interested ... Also I'm very pleased to be working with the former TWA F/As... professional and very pleasant to say the least.

 

[nbmcg01]

I agree we need some new blood for new negotiations and people seem to keep bringing up Dixie's name so I'm interested ... Also I'm very pleased to be working with the former TWA F/As... professional and very pleasant to say the least.

And likewise, they say the reception has been wonderful. AA's worst nightmare, we all get along..lol

 

[Maark767]

And likewise, they say the reception has been wonderful. AA's worst nightmare, we all get along..lol

LOL... Yes AA would not want that... they like to divide and concour....

 

[upsilon]

... Also I'm very pleased to be working with the former TWA F/As... professional and very pleasant to say the least.

And likewise, they say the reception has been wonderful. AA's worst nightmare, we all get along..lol

LOL... Yes AA would not want that... they like to divide and concour....

I'm curious to know why both of you (a former TWA and an active AA FA) feel that FA from each group 'getting along' is "AA's worst nightmare" and it is a 'divide and concour [sic]' scenario?

Nancy, I don't always agree with you; but for reasons (in addition to a shared VA heritage) I have appreciated your rational responses on this forum. But I am unable to understand why you would feel it is "AA's worst nightmare, we all get along". It doesn't make business sense to me and I hope it was 'rhetoric' on your part. Divisiveness among the cabin crew is NOT in interest of AA.

Mark, is there anyone in the recalled former TWA (then and now AA) FA group that doesn't feel "conquered" - they have been away from their chosen profession for almost 5 years. From all I have read on this board, the former TWA FA that are returning are those who really want to finish out their careers in the job they enjoyed. I would equate them to my experience on Delta international flights for many years after it took over PA. I never failed to correctly ask a FA that was former PA.

While it is not exactly analogous, obviously US Air is not happy with the inability of the AWA and US pilots (under the same union) to agree on merger terms. Even the OZA/TWA merger created pilot divisions that still smoulder today.

 

[jimntx]

I'm curious to know why both of you (a former TWA and an active AA FA) feel that FA from each group 'getting along' is "AA's worst nightmare" and it is a 'divide and concour [sic]' scenario?

For one thing, openers on the contract are coming up next year. The company would much prefer for an employee group of 18,000 out of the total employment of about 70,000 to be fighting among themselves rather than present a united front to the company. The company wants to decimate the current contract. That won't happen if we are united against the company.

The company is hoping to make the job of flight attendant so untenable that it will go back to what it once was with a slight variation--i.e., only young ladies of good family and nice legs would do it for a few years until they found a husband or got travel out of their system or got sick and tired of trying to live on what we make. The slight variation would be that people like me who have an income and have already had careers in other fields would do it for a few years just for the travel benefits.

That way the company could eliminate a HUGE pension liability--not right away, but over time.

 

[nbmcg01]

I'm curious to know why both of you (a former TWA and an active AA FA) feel that FA from each group 'getting along' is "AA's worst nightmare" and it is a 'divide and concour [sic]' scenario?

Nancy, I don't always agree with you; but for reasons (in addition to a shared VA heritage) I have appreciated your rational responses on this forum. But I am unable to understand why you would feel it is "AA's worst nightmare, we all get along". It doesn't make business sense to me and I hope it was 'rhetoric' on your part. Divisiveness among the cabin crew is NOT in interest of AA.

Mark, is there anyone in the recalled former TWA (then and now AA) FA group that doesn't feel "conquered" - they have been away from their chosen profession for almost 5 years. From all I have read on this board, the former TWA FA that are returning are those who really want to finish out their careers in the job they enjoyed. I would equate them to my experience on Delta international flights for many years after it took over PA. I never failed to correctly ask a FA that was former PA.

While it is not exactly analogous, obviously US Air is not happy with the inability of the AWA and US pilots (under the same union) to agree on merger terms. Even the OZA/TWA merger created pilot divisions that still smoulder today.

One of the first greetings we received from AA mangt. was a copy of the Article 32 "rules". We are known as strong unionists and obviously have shown strong resolve to get those wishing to return the ability to exercise those wishes. First and long standing predictions were that no former TWA f/a would ever be recalled. We had a participatory mangt. relationship that required accountability and when the first AA FSMs came to STL, they were shocked by the fact that we were always back in the managers offices. Service barriers were immediately addressed and we demanded our mangt. back us in most disputes. Because of concessions and this agreement, we "paid" for that right. As Director of Training, Policy and Procedures (for the union), I not only sat in on all mangt. meetings, but actually had a say in mangt. hiring decisions. Can you fathom that happening at AA? Both AA and the APFA have been very effective in keeping us "apart". Other than one mtg. after the RPA, and one mtg. when we picketed the APFA, no National Officer has ever met with those furloughed or offered to hold any Base meetings where we could attend along with the active f/as. We had our first real interaction during the picketing against the PUP payments and not to my surprise, it was just f/as walking and talking with f/as. All the talk of fights and discord just didn't happen. AA has made comments on many occasions that we did not fit into their corporate culture (and you know my feelings on that..lol), and I wonder how they feel as the pax respond to the enthusiastic return of those furloughed. TWA was shocked to find that customer service figures went up in direct proportion to the returning strikers. When you're out in the "real world" you quickly realize how much fun, even with the forced changes, the f/a job is compared with the 9-5 life. I think AA is very concerned about unity in the f/a ranks.

 

[galleyguy4u2]

As usual Nancy, very well said.

 

[Colby]

No, American Eagle is hiring new F/A's, and has been the entire time that AA was furloughing. Totally different carrier on paper, and totally different union representing their F/A's.

The only place AA can legally hire new F/A's is for the few that are basd in South America, and that's pretty limited.

This is true. Being a Furloughed USAIR Flight Attendant that has ended up at Eagle..Ive heard they are putting through 2 classes a
month. I believe they are preparing for the Recalls to happen taking any AA F/As that are left and going into the TWA recall. I know quite a few TWA Flight Attendants at Eagle and I hope they get the recall they Deserve !!! Plus it'll help my Seniority at Eagle HA HA

 

[upsilon]

Jim and Nancy, I will take your word about AA management. You have been and are close to the situation. But it does not make any sense to me. But then, nothing AA management has recently done in the area of employee relations has made sense.

As a former TWA pax who was a lifetime Ambassador Club member, I look forward to flying with TWA crew again!