aa recall question

[L1011Ret]

I worked with a nAAtive ramper who got bumped out of a 25% city by some senior TWAers. According to him, these people openly and vocally expressed great joy that they were bumping nAAtives out. Sounds to me like these TWAers from the "older generation" were "cold and lacked compassion".

Probably they did. Lacking such qualities is not determind by where you work but certainly may be aided by organizations.

 

[Nor'Easta]

If anybody is bitter and hostile it would seem to be you!

You have me confused with "Furloughed By APFA."

 

[L1011Ret]

[quote name='Nor'Easta' post='517631' date='Aug 25 2007, 08:40 AM']You have me confused with "Furloughed By APFA."[/quote]

quite possibly I clicked the wrong box. If that is so, my apologies.

 

[Bob Owens]

You do not have the slightest idea what would be involved. I can tell you I'd gladly give up some amount if it would save a persons job who has been furloughed several years and who has passed the 50 year old mark and who is unlikely to have any medical benefits if they are not recalled. But you live in a world much different than mine. I'm glad most of the people I know do not inhabit that world either.

I can understand and agree with the idea of extending recall rights due to the special circumstances of the ex-TWA FAs, normally five years is more than enough, but to give up anything in order to get the company to simply do what is right is silly. The fact is enough was given up already. It doesnt cost the company anything to extend recall and if not for the productivity improvements that the APFA agreed to, with nothing in return, the company would have had to call back these workers years ago. Point out how when the company asked to open the contract for completely one way bargaining the APFA allowed them to do that and according to the company saved management a trip through BK. Now the company wants more concessions before they will correct an injustice that was pushed through at what the company insisted was a perilous time. Why reward the company for poor behavior? Better to use dues money towards an information campaign highlighting what AA has done to these people from the broken promises to flat out lies. Ads. picket lines, handouts, work to rule,etc, let everyone know that the FAs are unhappy with management and that they have good reason to be.

 

[L1011Ret]

I can understand and agree with the idea of extending recall rights due to the special circumstances of the ex-TWA FAs, normally five years is more than enough, but to give up anything in order to get the company to simply do what is right is silly. The fact is enough was given up already. It doesnt cost the company anything to extend recall and if not for the productivity improvements that the APFA agreed to, with nothing in return, the company would have had to call back these workers years ago. Point out how when the company asked to open the contract for completely one way bargaining the APFA allowed them to do that and according to the company saved management a trip through BK. Now the company wants more concessions before they will correct an injustice that was pushed through at what the company insisted was a perilous time. Why reward the company for poor behavior? Better to use dues money towards an information campaign highlighting what AA has done to these people from the broken promises to flat out lies. Ads. picket lines, handouts, work to rule,etc, let everyone know that the FAs are unhappy with management and that they have good reason to be.

Another foolish response, you would not pay $100 to save your mother's life in hospital if they said that is what it would take because of some past negative behavior by the hospital like having to pay a large bill? It just6 is not right! Screw mom, let her die! Recall extension cost to AA is not free as noted in court testimony. And then APFA should pay something for they negotiated to take the furlough pay from the TWA F/As.

 

[nbmcg01]

Another foolish response, you would not pay $100 to save your mother's life in hospital if they said that is what it would take because of some past negative behavior by the hospital like having to pay a large bill? It just6 is not right! Screw mom, let her die! Recall extension cost to AA is not free as noted in court testimony. And then APFA should pay something for they negotiated to take the furlough pay from the TWA F/As.

Bill, while AA certainly incurs a training cost (up front), they very conveniently forget to acknowledge that training is a normal cost of doing business and therefore tax deductible.
Also, there is cost associated with finger printing, medical, and on-boarding but these would be there for any new hire training PLUS there would be an additional cost for the recruiting team. They can make recall appear a very expensive proposition or they can be honest with the true cost. Several of us asked AA to conduct on line training for those furloughed and all that would have been required at FU would have been the hands on, which could have been accomplished in about 8 days. If I can get a degree on line from Havard or Duke, it stands to reason that I could successfully complete a good portion of AAs flight attendant training on line.

ps. With the average age of those now being recalled in the mid 50s, there are also Federal retraining grants that AA will probably qualify for to cover the cost of training...(and employing the elderly) lol

 

[kirkpatrick]

Bill, while AA certainly incurs a training cost (up front), they very conveniently forget to acknowledge that training is a normal cost of doing business and therefore tax deductible.

Let's note that newhire training is about six weeks in duration, while recall training is only 3.5. And many of the furloughees who have dropped off the recall list are well below top of scale. At TWA we had about 700 FA's with three years or less at the time of acquisition.

MK

 

[nbmcg01]

Let's note that newhire training is about six weeks in duration, while recall training is only 3.5. And many of the furloughees who have dropped off the recall list are well below top of scale. At TWA we had about 700 FA's with three years or less at the time of acquisition.

MK

Thank you for that very important addition. You can make the "books" read any way that suits your position. (when you have control of them)

Are you getting excited? It looks as if you will have a great class.

 

[L1011Ret]

You may advance all the arguments you like. such as the F/As already gave or that AA ought do the right thing. All you are doing is to convince each other of your positions. I do not think AA is listening to your arguments. It is a contractual issue. Unless some LOA or something is put forward or offered, nothing will happen baring passage of the Recall bill in the Senate.

 

[nbmcg01]

You may advance all the arguments you like. such as the F/As already gave or that AA ought do the right thing. All you are doing is to convince each other of your positions. I do not think AA is listening to your arguments. It is a contractual issue. Unless some LOA or something is put forward or offered, nothing will happen baring passage of the Recall bill in the Senate.

The position is valid Bill. It is not my duty to convince AA, it is the APFA's responsibility.

 

[L1011Ret]

The position is valid Bill. It is not my duty to convince AA, it is the APFA's responsibility.

Nancy, I'm not saying the position is not valid to anyone here, just that it is not valid to AA because they do not see things through your lenses. It is my belief that APFA has to be willing to negotiate. AA is not going to change its contract with APFA because its the right thing to do or the givebacks should cover extending recall rights. AA never changes a contract without negotiations!

 

[StraaightTaalk]

If y'all are so deadset on givebacks in return for extended recall rights, then why don't the former TWA flight attendants agree to come in at a lower scale so that AA has a financial incentive to bring them all back? If the furloughees coming back are so concerned about those behind them yet to be recalled, I am sure they will on principle alone agree to give something back to bring their colleagues back.

Just wondering if you ever considered that.

 

[nbmcg01]

If y'all are so deadset on givebacks in return for extended recall rights, then why don't the former TWA flight attendants agree to come in at a lower scale so that AA has a financial incentive to bring them all back? If the furloughees coming back are so concerned about those behind them yet to be recalled, I am sure they will on principle alone agree to give something back to bring their colleagues back.

Because extended recall has already been paid for..$600,000,000 is a pretty fair price don't you think? We have people that were in the same pay range as the newhires who are below those now being recalled and below them are the last of the former TWA newhires. My guess is there won't be many returning from that group. First furloughed, they probably went to other carriers and have more seniority (pay and bidding) so it wouldn't serve them well to return to AA.

I think it is interesting that you choose to ignore the fact that several of us have said "no givebacks" and focus only on Bill's posts. I don't think the APFA has done anywhere near what they should have to try and secure recalls. No LOASs, lots of press, but that being said they have recently made some small steps in the right direction.

Bill. I agree this board means nothing but my position is very valid and the APFA should have and should be actively pursuing an LOA on a NPNR to extend recall. They missed several opportunities and we can only hope that won't happen again.

 

[L1011Ret]

If y'all are so deadset on givebacks in return for extended recall rights, then why don't the former TWA flight attendants agree to come in at a lower scale so that AA has a financial incentive to bring them all back? If the furloughees coming back are so concerned about those behind them yet to be recalled, I am sure they will on principle alone agree to give something back to bring their colleagues back.

Just wondering if you ever considered that.

But you have absolutely no idea what AA might ask for, none whatsoever. So don't judge till you have something to judge.

 

[StraaightTaalk]

But you have absolutely no idea what AA might ask for, none whatsoever. So don't judge till you have something to judge.

Just what I thought. 🙄 Typical.