AA Seniority after LCC Buyout

[conniegirl]

Did you not read or do you not understand the posts that correctly discuss the new law? Because of the ex-TWA FA complaints, stapling can no longer occur, denying you (or anyone else) the chance to seek retribution against the nAAtive AA FAs to punish them for stapling the TWA FAs. Your entire premise has been co-opted by Congress.

Let me correct your statment just a bit....McCaskill-Bond applies to "Real" Unions. In the case of two AFA carriers, the initiative would apply. In the case of an independent "Union" such as APFA, it does not. The APFA flight attendants bear a grave risk of stapling by any other legitimate union. It may be that other workforces in the industry wouldn't choose to exercise that perogative, given that it's disgustingly anti-union and goes against all union principles, but it is a possibility.

Since APFA is neither a real union (given their history of stapling, not just the TWA but the Reno people) and their history of unethical and immoral behavior (i.e. the necessity for the DOL to review more than a few elections due to "irregularities"; the theft of the STL domicile "promised to us" which they conveniently overlooked when the TW people had been furloughed,so that on recall STL was now "native" rather than it's original intent, which was ours ; their denial of the grievance process for the TW people; the requirement that all of a sudden furloughees pay Union dues but didn't enjoy any protection from the entity that they were paying; Laura's statement to us that she "couldn't -read wouldn't- unscramble the eggs all the while with her hand out requiring us to cough up $ in order to vote in their elections,.....that returns to the first sentence ).

So, yes the AA flight attendant's worse nightmare is here. They should be praying that US or whoever else waits in the wings has a better grasp of what real union principles are than does theirs.

 

[gasman]

Let me correct your statment just a bit....McCaskill-Bond applies to "Real" Unions. In the case of two AFA carriers, the initiative would apply. In the case of an independent "Union" such as APFA, it does not. The APFA flight attendants bear a grave risk of stapling by any other legitimate union. It may be that other workforces in the industry wouldn't choose to exercise that perogative, given that it's disgustingly anti-union and goes against all union principles, but it is a possibility.

Since APFA is neither a real union (given their history of stapling, not just the TWA but the Reno people) and their history of unethical and immoral behavior (i.e. the necessity for the DOL to review more than a few elections due to "irregularities"; the theft of the STL domicile "promised to us" which they conveniently overlooked when the TW people had been furloughed,so that on recall STL was now "native" rather than it's original intent, which was ours ; their denial of the grievance process for the TW people; the requirement that all of a sudden furloughees pay Union dues but didn't enjoy any protection from the entity that they were paying; Laura's statement to us that she "couldn't -read wouldn't- unscramble the eggs all the while with her hand out requiring us to cough up $ in order to vote in their elections,.....that returns to the first sentence ).

So, yes the AA flight attendant's worse nightmare is here. They should be praying that US or whoever else waits in the wings has a better grasp of what real union principles are than does theirs.

I agree with your statements. Yes, APFAs membership can be stapled now and fought thru the court system just like MidWest. What I'm trying to say is that now is the time for the AA f/as to correct this mess before some other group states that they, APFA had their chance before the aquiring takes place.

 

[FWAAA]

Let me correct your statment just a bit....McCaskill-Bond applies to "Real" Unions. In the case of two AFA carriers, the initiative would apply. In the case of an independent "Union" such as APFA, it does not. The APFA flight attendants bear a grave risk of stapling by any other legitimate union. It may be that other workforces in the industry wouldn't choose to exercise that perogative, given that it's disgustingly anti-union and goes against all union principles, but it is a possibility.

Your assertions are contradicted by the AFA in their explanation of McCaskill-Bond:

http://afaonevoice.org/images/McCaskill%20Amendment%20explanation%20FINAL%20for%20WEB.pdf

Even if your distorted reading of the law were accurate, how would the US FA union staple a substantially larger group of FAs? Last time I checked, AA has significantly more FAs than US. Upon combining, there would be a union election and my guess is that the APFA would prevail. According to your reasoning, APFA could then staple the US FAs because McCaskill-Bond would not apply? Your reasoning is faulty.

 

[conniegirl]

Your assertions are contradicted by the AFA in their explanation of McCaskill-Bond:

http://afaonevoice.org/images/McCaskill%20Amendment%20explanation%20FINAL%20for%20WEB.pdf

Even if your distorted reading of the law were accurate, how would the US FA union staple a substantially larger group of FAs? Last time I checked, AA has significantly more FAs than US. Upon combining, there would be a union election and my guess is that the APFA would prevail. According to your reasoning, APFA could then staple the US FAs because McCaskill-Bond would not apply? Your reasoning is faulty.

 

[diamondcutter]

Just a question ... AA fa's have more members ... Would that not trump Afa in a vote

 

[Veritas]

And the ex-TWA employees complained to their Congressional representatives until Congress changed the law to require a more equitable seniority integration in the future, denying anyone the chance to give the nAAtive AA FAs a taste of their own medicine in case someone buys AA's assets in the future.

Schadenfreude? :down:

 

[ebwgs]

If there was a transaction between AA and US, if AA employees were stapled--why am I even wading into this cause who knows what's gonna happen during the CH 11 filing--to the bottom my anger and embarrassment would only be mirrored if the same injustice were imposed on us. As far as flight attendants, Date of Hire is the fairest way to go. How other work group handle this matter is up to them and not for me to say.

 

[conniegirl]

Your assertions are contradicted by the AFA in their explanation of McCaskill-Bond:

http://afaonevoice.org/images/McCaskill%20Amendment%20explanation%20FINAL%20for%20WEB.pdf

Even if your distorted reading of the law were accurate, how would the US FA union staple a substantially larger group of FAs? Last time I checked, AA has significantly more FAs than US. Upon combining, there would be a union election and my guess is that the APFA would prevail. According to your reasoning, APFA could then staple the US FAs because McCaskill-Bond would not apply? Your reasoning is faulty.

 

[gasman]

Just a question ... AA fa's have more members ... Would that not trump Afa in a vote

Who has more f/as isn't the issue. The aquiring carrier and their own union would work out the agreement between both parties, meaning the aquiring company and it's union regarding stapling/non stapling position they would take. If both parties, meaning both union f/a.s cannot come to an agreement regarding seniority then the McCaskill-Bond bill applys, thanks to the former TWA f/as for that insurance card. .

 

[conniegirl]

Who has more f/as isn't the issue. The aquiring carrier and their own union would work out the agreement between both parties, meaning the aquiring company and it's union regarding stapling/non stapling position they would take. If both parties, meaning both union f/a.s cannot come to an agreement regarding seniority then the McCaskill-Bond bill applys, thanks to the former TWA f/as for that insurance card. .

AFA is the only union with a seniority integration policy that preserves a Flight Attendant's bidding seniority.

Read more: http://www.sacbee.com/2011/12/01/4093742/flight-attendant-union-wins-seniority.html#ixzz1fQ3IROdt

 

[nick]

If there was a transaction between AA and US, if AA employees were stapled--why am I even wading into this cause who knows what's gonna happen during the CH 11 filing--to the bottom my anger and embarrassment would only be mirrored if the same injustice were imposed on us. As far as flight attendants, Date of Hire is the fairest way to go. How other work group handle this matter is up to them and not for me to say.

As a junior f/a at US with only 11 years seniority, I have no issue with date-of-hire. It IS the fairest way, for all work groups as far as I am concerned. What (junior) f/as at AA need to fear is the reserve system that US has. The power of the most senior is incredible and frankly, those are the only ones AFA is concerned with. Our reserve system is archaic, does not allow reserves to break guarantee, and much is open to scheduling's discretion. It there were to be slotting with the f/a's, this would be the real issue and difficulty for AA f/as.

 

[gasman]

Ok ,I am a US employee. And I do firmly believe that US and AA will combine. But in no way do I believe that US will staple AA to the bottom .Its just something we do not do . It's not fair , ethical ,nor can it even occur with new laws in place . And starting a thread like this just creates animosity where we simply don't need it .

Given the fact that Us Air employees consider stapling to be unfair and unethical. Would Us Air employees consider it fair and ethical to continue to leave the former TWA f/as stapled to the bottom if both carriers were to combine?

 

[nick]

Given the fact that Us Air employees consider stapling to be unfair and unethical. Would Us Air employees consider it fair and ethical to continue to leave the former TWA f/as stapled to the bottom if both carriers were to combine?

LOL You DO Like to stir the pot. I like to think that we as a group are fair. We are the lowest paid in the industry at this point and are, like the rest of the country, just trying to make a living. Our issue is with management. But we can't correct all the injustices that have been committed in this industry.

 

[NoMoreKoolAid]

Listen, AFA is Date of Hire period. No stapling or slotting. It's in the constiution of our union. USAir flight attendants have always extended date of hire to PSA Piedmont ect. It's the fair and right thing. AFA would extend that to all the AA Flight Attendants as well should this #### show unfold.

 

[TWskyliner]

I'm sure that since the AA f/a's have been shown the proverbial "writing on the wall," there will hardly be any left to merge into the US seniority list. Despite decades of committed service THEY won't be hanging around a "dying carcass" like the TWA f/a's did...they are much too smart for that. Really it's not so hard starting over.