Now after laying off thousands of flight attendants AA is short f/a''s. I was re-assigned this week to cover the shortage as well as many others. The system is a mess with shortages. If you don''t want to work don''t answer your phone this weekend.
AA short flight attendants
- Thread starter MiAAmi
- Start date
Scheduling is indeed reassigning flight attendants across the system. "Managers" (i.e. supervisors) are having to dust off their uniforms and actually work flights. Two of my good friends left on July 2 for a MIA-LAX two-day trip and still haven't returned...today is July 5. Never mind the fact they both have children and have had to scramble like mad to make sure the kids are looked after as their parents are continuously reassigned. It is unbelievable that planning at AA did not foresee this fiasco. Summer loads increase historically and this summer is no different. Our planes are full and scheduling needs crewmembers to fly them. The company laid off too many people at the wrong time. Instead of laying off 3,100 f/as on July 1, AA should have had the presence of mind to wait until summer traffic slowed. Now the company must pay f/as understaffing pay left and right; this adds up quickly.
On the 4M, there have been postings from F/As with accounts of scheduling willfully breaking the contract to make them fly (reducing at-home rest breaks below 10 hours, etc). It is very important to know your contractual rights and to answer your phone with caution.
En garde!
Art Tang
On the 4M, there have been postings from F/As with accounts of scheduling willfully breaking the contract to make them fly (reducing at-home rest breaks below 10 hours, etc). It is very important to know your contractual rights and to answer your phone with caution.
En garde!
Art Tang
TWAnr
Veteran
Title: Changes Have Been Whirlwind in Flight Service
Hi! This is Patrick O''Keeffe with a Flight Service Update for July 3, 2003.
This weekend is already shaping up to be a challenging operation. You may also notice flight attendant-qualified managers working trips this weekend due to the large amount of open time that is currently available. Many trips will operate at FAA minimums. For those of you impacted by the staffing shortages, I apologize. As we work to restore our airline to financial stability, it is very important that we avoid canceling trips because of staffing issues. Option 2 is open and available to flight attendants interested in picking up some extra time. We expect to return to normal coverage levels over the weekend.
What was left out of his hotline was that trips are being extended, reserves are forced to fly on duty free periods and line holders are being drafted, on their days off, to work trips that are not in their original lines.
Hi! This is Patrick O''Keeffe with a Flight Service Update for July 3, 2003.
This weekend is already shaping up to be a challenging operation. You may also notice flight attendant-qualified managers working trips this weekend due to the large amount of open time that is currently available. Many trips will operate at FAA minimums. For those of you impacted by the staffing shortages, I apologize. As we work to restore our airline to financial stability, it is very important that we avoid canceling trips because of staffing issues. Option 2 is open and available to flight attendants interested in picking up some extra time. We expect to return to normal coverage levels over the weekend.
What was left out of his hotline was that trips are being extended, reserves are forced to fly on duty free periods and line holders are being drafted, on their days off, to work trips that are not in their original lines.
There is this little electro-mechanical device that has been around for some time. I believe it is called an answering machine.
What goes around comes around.
What goes around comes around.
- Thread Starter
- #5
Oh yea! I guess thats why we are just little flight attendants and your the big mechanic. Thanks for the insight.
There is this little electro-mechanical device that has been around for some time. I believe it is called an answering machine.
What goes around comes around.
Hey Einstein, that is why I wrote, "Answer your phones with caution." If you suspect it's scheduling, don't pick it up. And exactly what do you mean by, "What comes around goes around"? Is that some sort of deep life-lesson for us? 'Cuz I don't git it! If you are referring to the wonderful concessionary contract that has so generously unemployed our colleagues with reduced or eliminated benefits and pay, don't blame me. I didn't vote for it. A huge percentage of us didn't (I suspect that is what you are referring to in your little billet doux).
On another note, AA is indeed short flight attendants thanks to the geniuses in the Ivory Tower at Centerport. What a great idea to layoff 3,100 f/as just as the summer crush begins. And another thing: for you flight attendants out there flying Option II: Are you crazy? We have thousands of furloughed flight attendants on the streets and the company is scrambling to man flights, and here you are helping the company by flying extra trips? My God, go to HIBOARD and pick up a trip from another f/a, but don't fly Option II. Please!!!!
End of sermon...
What goes around comes around.
Hey Einstein, that is why I wrote, "Answer your phones with caution." If you suspect it's scheduling, don't pick it up. And exactly what do you mean by, "What comes around goes around"? Is that some sort of deep life-lesson for us? 'Cuz I don't git it! If you are referring to the wonderful concessionary contract that has so generously unemployed our colleagues with reduced or eliminated benefits and pay, don't blame me. I didn't vote for it. A huge percentage of us didn't (I suspect that is what you are referring to in your little billet doux).
On another note, AA is indeed short flight attendants thanks to the geniuses in the Ivory Tower at Centerport. What a great idea to layoff 3,100 f/as just as the summer crush begins. And another thing: for you flight attendants out there flying Option II: Are you crazy? We have thousands of furloughed flight attendants on the streets and the company is scrambling to man flights, and here you are helping the company by flying extra trips? My God, go to HIBOARD and pick up a trip from another f/a, but don't fly Option II. Please!!!!
End of sermon...
Garfield1966
Veteran
I guess the pair ups and reassigning had nothing to do with the additional 400-500 FA=s who bombed in sick for the holidays and who all of a sudden are feeling better huh?
We are not short that many if any FA''s. It had to do with people bidding them selves illegal, calling in sick for the holidays. Planning did drop the ball for the end of June but we had as many extra reserves as we cold have on duty at the beginning of the month. Only so many you can have with out screwing us at the en of the month.
A majority of the RA''s that took place were due to sick calls. If those additional 400-500 FA''s had not bombed in, a majority of you would have been able to fly your line and go home.
The sick list was well over 1200 when I went home today.
For those of you who flew and were reassigned, sorry but that’s what we had to do to keep going.
For those of you who bombed in sick and were not, shame on you. Yes, yes, some were really sick. But the sick list always increases by a 33% to 50% during holidays. A few X-masses ago it went from the low 900''s to over 2000 and then miraculously dropped back to normal by the end of the first week of Jan. HMMMMMMMMM?????? I am operational just like you guys. I do remember something about being willing to work weekends, holidays etc.
We are an airline. We are open 24/7/365. I have been with AA for close to 20 years and I have yet to hold X-mass/ new years off or Easter or any other good holiday. I have not seen my folks for the holiday in over a decade. But I chose this job because of it’s flexibility. If you want to be off on the holidays and be home on weekends, then don’t be a flight attendant.
We do not willfully break the contract. We may screw up on occasion but it is not intentional. We get talked too and a letter goes in our file if we screw up too much. If you pay claim us for screwing we get pulled in the managers office and we have to explain our selves and if it happens again we will get in trouble.
We had more open time than we could manage and it was growing and growing because of sick call after sick call. We were working art break neck speeds and mistakes will happen.
So before you get all bent out of shape at us, get your own house in order and then we can see what happens.
And one more thing. We don’t like RA’ing you any more than you like having it done. It is more work for us, we have to look for someone who is legal, do all the PC work, contact you and it is a royal pain in the ass.
We are not short that many if any FA''s. It had to do with people bidding them selves illegal, calling in sick for the holidays. Planning did drop the ball for the end of June but we had as many extra reserves as we cold have on duty at the beginning of the month. Only so many you can have with out screwing us at the en of the month.
A majority of the RA''s that took place were due to sick calls. If those additional 400-500 FA''s had not bombed in, a majority of you would have been able to fly your line and go home.
The sick list was well over 1200 when I went home today.
For those of you who flew and were reassigned, sorry but that’s what we had to do to keep going.
For those of you who bombed in sick and were not, shame on you. Yes, yes, some were really sick. But the sick list always increases by a 33% to 50% during holidays. A few X-masses ago it went from the low 900''s to over 2000 and then miraculously dropped back to normal by the end of the first week of Jan. HMMMMMMMMM?????? I am operational just like you guys. I do remember something about being willing to work weekends, holidays etc.
We are an airline. We are open 24/7/365. I have been with AA for close to 20 years and I have yet to hold X-mass/ new years off or Easter or any other good holiday. I have not seen my folks for the holiday in over a decade. But I chose this job because of it’s flexibility. If you want to be off on the holidays and be home on weekends, then don’t be a flight attendant.
We do not willfully break the contract. We may screw up on occasion but it is not intentional. We get talked too and a letter goes in our file if we screw up too much. If you pay claim us for screwing we get pulled in the managers office and we have to explain our selves and if it happens again we will get in trouble.
We had more open time than we could manage and it was growing and growing because of sick call after sick call. We were working art break neck speeds and mistakes will happen.
So before you get all bent out of shape at us, get your own house in order and then we can see what happens.
And one more thing. We don’t like RA’ing you any more than you like having it done. It is more work for us, we have to look for someone who is legal, do all the PC work, contact you and it is a royal pain in the ass.
----------------
On 7/5/2003 7:18:43 PM Garfield1966 wrote:
I guess the pair ups and reassigning had nothing to do with the additional 400-500 FA=s who bombed in sick for the holidays and who all of a sudden are feeling better huh?
We are not short that many if any FA''s. It had to do with people bidding them selves illegal, calling in sick for the holidays. Planning did drop the ball for the end of June but we had as many extra reserves as we cold have on duty at the beginning of the month. Only so many you can have with out screwing us at the en of the month.
A majority of the RA''s that took place were due to sick calls. If those additional 400-500 FA''s had not bombed in, a majority of you would have been able to fly your line and go home.
The sick list was well over 1200 when I went home today.
For those of you who flew and were reassigned, sorry but that’s what we had to do to keep going.
For those of you who bombed in sick and were not, shame on you. Yes, yes, some were really sick. But the sick list always increases by a 33% to 50% during holidays. A few X-masses ago it went from the low 900''s to over 2000 and then miraculously dropped back to normal by the end of the first week of Jan. HMMMMMMMMM?????? I am operational just like you guys. I do remember something about being willing to work weekends, holidays etc.
We are an airline. We are open 24/7/365. I have been with AA for close to 20 years and I have yet to hold X-mass/ new years off or Easter or any other good holiday. I have not seen my folks for the holiday in over a decade. But I chose this job because of it’s flexibility. If you want to be off on the holidays and be home on weekends, then don’t be a flight attendant.
We do not willfully break the contract. We may screw up on occasion but it is not intentional. We get talked too and a letter goes in our file if we screw up too much. If you pay claim us for screwing we get pulled in the managers office and we have to explain our selves and if it happens again we will get in trouble.
We had more open time than we could manage and it was growing and growing because of sick call after sick call. We were working art break neck speeds and mistakes will happen.
So before you get all bent out of shape at us, get your own house in order and then we can see what happens.
And one more thing. We don’t like RA’ing you any more than you like having it done. It is more work for us, we have to look for someone who is legal, do all the PC work, contact you and it is a royal pain in the ass.
----------------
You are kidding......Right? Thank you Art Tang for looking out for those of us who want to come back to this job. Garfiled1966...You guys were reassigning crews, and maxing out reserves long before the July 2nd Layoff. Also, If you think the sick list is too Long then maybe someone should have enough reserves to compensate for that. Managers flying in a job that is rightfully mine and the rest of us who are layed off is unacceptable and should be unacceptable to the APFA and it''s membership since over 6000 of us are now on the street....I agreee please DONT fly option 2 and DONT pick up the telephone. I firmly believe what goes around comes around!On 7/5/2003 7:18:43 PM Garfield1966 wrote:
I guess the pair ups and reassigning had nothing to do with the additional 400-500 FA=s who bombed in sick for the holidays and who all of a sudden are feeling better huh?
We are not short that many if any FA''s. It had to do with people bidding them selves illegal, calling in sick for the holidays. Planning did drop the ball for the end of June but we had as many extra reserves as we cold have on duty at the beginning of the month. Only so many you can have with out screwing us at the en of the month.
A majority of the RA''s that took place were due to sick calls. If those additional 400-500 FA''s had not bombed in, a majority of you would have been able to fly your line and go home.
The sick list was well over 1200 when I went home today.
For those of you who flew and were reassigned, sorry but that’s what we had to do to keep going.
For those of you who bombed in sick and were not, shame on you. Yes, yes, some were really sick. But the sick list always increases by a 33% to 50% during holidays. A few X-masses ago it went from the low 900''s to over 2000 and then miraculously dropped back to normal by the end of the first week of Jan. HMMMMMMMMM?????? I am operational just like you guys. I do remember something about being willing to work weekends, holidays etc.
We are an airline. We are open 24/7/365. I have been with AA for close to 20 years and I have yet to hold X-mass/ new years off or Easter or any other good holiday. I have not seen my folks for the holiday in over a decade. But I chose this job because of it’s flexibility. If you want to be off on the holidays and be home on weekends, then don’t be a flight attendant.
We do not willfully break the contract. We may screw up on occasion but it is not intentional. We get talked too and a letter goes in our file if we screw up too much. If you pay claim us for screwing we get pulled in the managers office and we have to explain our selves and if it happens again we will get in trouble.
We had more open time than we could manage and it was growing and growing because of sick call after sick call. We were working art break neck speeds and mistakes will happen.
So before you get all bent out of shape at us, get your own house in order and then we can see what happens.
And one more thing. We don’t like RA’ing you any more than you like having it done. It is more work for us, we have to look for someone who is legal, do all the PC work, contact you and it is a royal pain in the ass.
----------------
Garfield1966,
Your post makes perfect sense when using the unemotional logic
of Mr Spock from "Star Trek". In the real world of leading tens of
thousands of employees, it falls on it''s face.
Instead of crying and bitching about the same 5 days a year, maybe
they should try leading them during the remaining 360.
Your post makes perfect sense when using the unemotional logic
of Mr Spock from "Star Trek". In the real world of leading tens of
thousands of employees, it falls on it''s face.
Instead of crying and bitching about the same 5 days a year, maybe
they should try leading them during the remaining 360.
Garfield1966
Veteran
AA cannot base reserve head count on the peaks. Reserve head count is based on the need on a average day. On most days we have plenty of reserves to cover the operation. If we had enough on staff to cover OSO operations, holidays and what not we would be back to a few month ago when the Avg reserve hours were in the 40''s and 50''s.
I never said we did not reassign people. We do it when we need to cover the operation which on a day to day basis happens very rarely. Max reserves? Hell yes. That is the way it''s supposed to work. They are getting their Guar. if they fly or don''t fly. So you better believe we try and max the reserves by the end of the month. When I first started the end/start of the month was a pain in the ass do to reserves maxed out and sick calls and trip removals due to legalities. For the past two years that has not been an issue.
We are now going to get back to normal. The last few days and the first few days of each month will see more pair ups and reassignments. The other 20 plus days of the moth will be normal.
If you want to see less of that … then don’t call in sick when you’re not sick. Because we are not going to hire 500 FA’s just to cover a few days out of the year to cover the “Holiday flu†victims, and have them sit around the rest of the year and earn 70 hrs of pay for 50 hrs of work. It’s not going to happen.
I never said we did not reassign people. We do it when we need to cover the operation which on a day to day basis happens very rarely. Max reserves? Hell yes. That is the way it''s supposed to work. They are getting their Guar. if they fly or don''t fly. So you better believe we try and max the reserves by the end of the month. When I first started the end/start of the month was a pain in the ass do to reserves maxed out and sick calls and trip removals due to legalities. For the past two years that has not been an issue.
We are now going to get back to normal. The last few days and the first few days of each month will see more pair ups and reassignments. The other 20 plus days of the moth will be normal.
If you want to see less of that … then don’t call in sick when you’re not sick. Because we are not going to hire 500 FA’s just to cover a few days out of the year to cover the “Holiday flu†victims, and have them sit around the rest of the year and earn 70 hrs of pay for 50 hrs of work. It’s not going to happen.
Garfield,
I have a question for you. It is my understanding that many nAAtive AA schedulers were replaced by former TWA schedulers. Is this correct?
Good day.
I have a question for you. It is my understanding that many nAAtive AA schedulers were replaced by former TWA schedulers. Is this correct?
Good day.
Garfield1966
Veteran
Mach. I am not sure what you are saying. Are you saying that someone should lead the FA’s? Please elaborate.
You said my argument makes sense on the logical level. Well, as far as I am concerned, that’s the only requirement that needs to be met. Running a company on emotion or “feel good†decisions is a sure way to failure.
CS, no. No one was replaced by TWA Schedulers. What happened was back in November or the first part of 2002 we let go about 8 FA schedulers. These were problem children who had bad attendance problems, performance issues, reliability issues … etc. No one was surprised by who got let go. At least I know I was not. At that point we were under head count. The TWA schedulers and the few AA hired separately from else where in the company (and by few I mean 5 or so) brought us close to where we should be. We did not loose anyone this month because we are still under the head count we should be at.
The TWA schedulers were brought in and they got their sonority integrated in to ours. Needless to say, quite a few “natives†were pissed off. I am still on the fence and I guess it depends what day you get me as to what my response will be.
Art, a few things I want to address. First, this particular holiday was not different from holidays several years ago. When I started out in Scheduling, we went through this crap ever OSO, and every holiday. The X-mass/New Years of 1999 we went from a sk list average of 900-1000 to over 2000. That was before the economic down turn and before TWA so I am sorry, but to say AA should have waited with the lay offs does not hold any water. Besides, according to what you are saying., we would have just delayed the same situation for the next holiday. If the 400 plus FA*s would not have contracted the mysterious “holiday flu†then a majority of this would not have happened. Every holiday it’s the same old story and for every holiday it will be the same old story.
As for all these breaches of legalities and such. Where are they? Why are you not pay claiming us, calling us and saying “hey, you can’t do this.†Could it be because a majority of them are not breaches. I cannot count the number of times someone says “I’m not legal for this†(but they really are) or “Hey you skipped me†(when we did not) or I am maxed out (they are not, hell half of you don’t seem to what your contract says) or “I have a 30/7 problem†(no you don’t) … etc.
There is not a shortage. The system is getting back to normal. Option 2 is closed and for day to day ops, we are fine. Yes there will be the odd RA here and their, but for the most part that is over for now. End of the month? Yea, probably. Holidays … You bet your ass we will be RA’ing so pack a bag. If you max is 85 hours, you should fly 85 hours and we will help you do it.
You said my argument makes sense on the logical level. Well, as far as I am concerned, that’s the only requirement that needs to be met. Running a company on emotion or “feel good†decisions is a sure way to failure.
CS, no. No one was replaced by TWA Schedulers. What happened was back in November or the first part of 2002 we let go about 8 FA schedulers. These were problem children who had bad attendance problems, performance issues, reliability issues … etc. No one was surprised by who got let go. At least I know I was not. At that point we were under head count. The TWA schedulers and the few AA hired separately from else where in the company (and by few I mean 5 or so) brought us close to where we should be. We did not loose anyone this month because we are still under the head count we should be at.
The TWA schedulers were brought in and they got their sonority integrated in to ours. Needless to say, quite a few “natives†were pissed off. I am still on the fence and I guess it depends what day you get me as to what my response will be.
Art, a few things I want to address. First, this particular holiday was not different from holidays several years ago. When I started out in Scheduling, we went through this crap ever OSO, and every holiday. The X-mass/New Years of 1999 we went from a sk list average of 900-1000 to over 2000. That was before the economic down turn and before TWA so I am sorry, but to say AA should have waited with the lay offs does not hold any water. Besides, according to what you are saying., we would have just delayed the same situation for the next holiday. If the 400 plus FA*s would not have contracted the mysterious “holiday flu†then a majority of this would not have happened. Every holiday it’s the same old story and for every holiday it will be the same old story.
As for all these breaches of legalities and such. Where are they? Why are you not pay claiming us, calling us and saying “hey, you can’t do this.†Could it be because a majority of them are not breaches. I cannot count the number of times someone says “I’m not legal for this†(but they really are) or “Hey you skipped me†(when we did not) or I am maxed out (they are not, hell half of you don’t seem to what your contract says) or “I have a 30/7 problem†(no you don’t) … etc.
There is not a shortage. The system is getting back to normal. Option 2 is closed and for day to day ops, we are fine. Yes there will be the odd RA here and their, but for the most part that is over for now. End of the month? Yea, probably. Holidays … You bet your ass we will be RA’ing so pack a bag. If you max is 85 hours, you should fly 85 hours and we will help you do it.
Dear Scheduler Me (sorry, I don't know your name 
I will not deny sick calls go up in the holidays. I agree with you that some people with "challenged" work ethics will always call in sick and let their colleagues pick up the slack on a holiday. But hasn't this always been factored in historically? My point is, in my 17 years of flying at AA, I have never seen supervisors forced to work trips en masse like this (except during our strike in '93). So something IS wrong and I still believe the problem lies in the massive & inopportune layoffs.
In fairness to the f/as, I imagine an increase of sick calls will be inevitable as crews are scheduled (by allocations, not crew scheduling) to work the 13/14 hour days with minimum FAA layover. For those who sit at a desk everyday and do not know what it is like to come into contact with 400+ people in one day while working 14 hours and getting 6 1/2 hours of rest, well, the body gets tired and worn down. Germs fly around and end up in our throats and eyes. I am not complaining about the job, I'm simpling stating a fact. If you take a look at the new bidsheets since the new "contract", you will see very long days in the air with very short layovers. Often, we get 9 hour layovers to deplane passengers, wait for our van, ride to the hotel, check in, shower, sleep (6 1/2 hours IF we're lucky), meet for van pick-up so we can be back on the a/c an hour before departure. Then we get to do it all over again if it is a 3 day trip. Pilots will not experience the same rate of sick calls because they are not exposed to the hundreds of passengers' sneezes and coughs. So, when f/as call in sick a bit more during this winter, it may have to do with the new and "improved" work rules.
As for the f/as who have posted complaining about illegal reassignments/reduced rest breaks: I can only say that it was what I've read. Whether it is true or not, who knows? I do know, however, that when such things happen, f/as must suck up the assignment and grieve it on another day. Being a holiday, there are no managers or even union reps in the offices so filing a formal complaint may take a few days. If any illegal assignments were made, it may take you a few days for you to hear about them.
For the record: I am not one of those f/as who regard crew schedulers as adversaries; I know we each have our job to do and I have no problem with that. I appreciate schedulers who are courteous to me and I always treat them in a reciprical fashion. My original posts were not meant to shed negative light on the schedulers doing their job. I simply wanted to warn my colleagues that the company is critically short staffing, to be vigilant when they answer the phone, and to know their contractual rights. I have no beef with crew scheduling.
Well, I have used up my allotted play time on the computer so ya'all won't be hearing from me for a while (yes, I hear that collective sigh of relief). Take care and PEACE...
Art
I will not deny sick calls go up in the holidays. I agree with you that some people with "challenged" work ethics will always call in sick and let their colleagues pick up the slack on a holiday. But hasn't this always been factored in historically? My point is, in my 17 years of flying at AA, I have never seen supervisors forced to work trips en masse like this (except during our strike in '93). So something IS wrong and I still believe the problem lies in the massive & inopportune layoffs.
In fairness to the f/as, I imagine an increase of sick calls will be inevitable as crews are scheduled (by allocations, not crew scheduling) to work the 13/14 hour days with minimum FAA layover. For those who sit at a desk everyday and do not know what it is like to come into contact with 400+ people in one day while working 14 hours and getting 6 1/2 hours of rest, well, the body gets tired and worn down. Germs fly around and end up in our throats and eyes. I am not complaining about the job, I'm simpling stating a fact. If you take a look at the new bidsheets since the new "contract", you will see very long days in the air with very short layovers. Often, we get 9 hour layovers to deplane passengers, wait for our van, ride to the hotel, check in, shower, sleep (6 1/2 hours IF we're lucky), meet for van pick-up so we can be back on the a/c an hour before departure. Then we get to do it all over again if it is a 3 day trip. Pilots will not experience the same rate of sick calls because they are not exposed to the hundreds of passengers' sneezes and coughs. So, when f/as call in sick a bit more during this winter, it may have to do with the new and "improved" work rules.
As for the f/as who have posted complaining about illegal reassignments/reduced rest breaks: I can only say that it was what I've read. Whether it is true or not, who knows? I do know, however, that when such things happen, f/as must suck up the assignment and grieve it on another day. Being a holiday, there are no managers or even union reps in the offices so filing a formal complaint may take a few days. If any illegal assignments were made, it may take you a few days for you to hear about them.
For the record: I am not one of those f/as who regard crew schedulers as adversaries; I know we each have our job to do and I have no problem with that. I appreciate schedulers who are courteous to me and I always treat them in a reciprical fashion. My original posts were not meant to shed negative light on the schedulers doing their job. I simply wanted to warn my colleagues that the company is critically short staffing, to be vigilant when they answer the phone, and to know their contractual rights. I have no beef with crew scheduling.
Well, I have used up my allotted play time on the computer so ya'all won't be hearing from me for a while (yes, I hear that collective sigh of relief). Take care and PEACE...
Art
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