AA should buy ALASKA Air !

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

All right "ladies and Gents", PARDON me(plz), while I "nudge" this topic, back to the (possible) senseability of Buying Alaska.

Like it or not, we ALL know that ALL of AA's unions would prevail, because they're larger, AND we all know PERFECTLY well, which AA unon would DO what.

I respectfully disagree with 777 fixer.

While I don't advocate (should UAL start the consolidation ball rolling), a "Mega-merger scenario, I very much agree that AA should NOT sit quietly by, without adding a small to medium size "PLUM"

AS, is that "PLUM" !!.........It's NO secret, that AA looked(several times) at AS, over the years..

"IF" this round turns out to be(say) 10 carriers becoming 5, (instead of the usual 2 carriers becoming 1), again, I feel AA would be NUTS, not to "add" a lil' something to their "portfolio"

The LAST thing I would want to see happen is;
a ("hypo") UAL/CO or DL....a DL/CO or NW...A B6/FL, and especially a WN/AS...while AA stood by, "playing POCKET POOL" :blink:

I'm not a APA-Ralph Hunter fan, but ol' Ralph was(IMHO) correct to say that APA needs to initiate a "dry run" scenario, for his members....Just-in-case !!!!!!!

NH/BB's

 

[aafsc]

<_< --- I've always thought Alaska Airlines would be a good economic choice for aa! I was hoping Alaska Air and TWA could have gotten together! But it wasn't meant to be! Politically? Different story! Unless the people of aa change their strips on this one,( Not likely!) I feel it could mean more of the same as with TWA!!!--- :down: As would be true with any "merger/buyout"! Any Airline's employees would be concerned! aa and it's Unions have shown their true colors with the TWA debacle!

When are you and others going to get it thru your thick skull that the AA unions BY LAW had to protect their members. You were not members at the time so AA's unions owed you NO duty of representation. Ramp and mechanics went to binding arbitration and that still isn't good enough for you. AA fufilled it's promise and hired the twa people like they said they would. Most were furloughed 2 years later because the industry tanked and the twaers were not at the top of the combined lists. Interestingly, the only group of twaers that got their twa seniority was management, the only group where AA management could dictate seniority. Hmmmm. Of course seniority in management means nothing. AA has furloughed nAAtive management people while keeping the managers from twa.

 

[Boomer]

All right "ladies and Gents", PARDON me(plz), while I "nudge" this topic, back to the (possible) senseability of Buying Alaska.

Like it or not, we ALL know that ALL of AA's unions would prevail, because they're larger, AND we all know PERFECTLY well, which AA unon would DO what.

I respectfully disagree with 777 fixer.

While I don't advocate (should UAL start the consolidation ball rolling), a "Mega-merger scenario, I very much agree that AA should NOT sit quietly by, without adding a small to medium size "PLUM"

AS, is that "PLUM" !!.........It's NO secret, that AA looked(several times) at AS, over the years..

"IF" this round turns out to be(say) 10 carriers becoming 5, (instead of the usual 2 carriers becoming 1), again, I feel AA would be NUTS, not to "add" a lil' something to their "portfolio"

The LAST thing I would want to see happen is;
a ("hypo") UAL/CO or DL....a DL/CO or NW...A B6/FL, and especially a WN/AS...while AA stood by, "playing POCKET POOL" :blink:

I'm not a APA-Ralph Hunter fan, but ol' Ralph was(IMHO) correct to say that APA needs to initiate a "dry run" scenario, for his members....Just-in-case !!!!!!!

NH/BB's

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Given that the TWU is a rubber stamp for AA Management, why should any employee of AA give a rats' A$$ about Industry consolidation if that leads to more concessions to pay for it?

 

[whlinder]

How many fine airlines is AA planning on destroying?

Perhaps more important than Alaska's SEA and ANC operations is the LAX 'hub'. (AS calls it a hub). If this were to happen perhaps the overall AA marketshare in LAX would allow AA to expand with some new LAX flights to Asia.

SEA isn't great for an Asian gateway but possibly with 787s flying transpacs it could be built into a nice gateway.

Of course AA wouldn't get to keep AS' DCA slots.

 

[1AA]

Alaska AMTs are AMFA. The twu would NEVER allow a merger.

That is so true but I think that some how the TWU and AA would try to change the NMB rules on representational election on two unions representing the same work group. The IAM had their opportunity with the TWA merger and backed off and conceded to the TWU in fear of AMFA winning representation. According to the TWA merger the IAM had to petition the NMB and a representational run off would have occurred. So if AA buys or merges with Alaska I am sure that the AMFA would petition the NMB for a run off election. For this reson I believe that AA would stay clear of any AMFA represented airline.

 

[WorldTraveler]

TIME OUT.

There are some basic assumptions that are very flawed here.

Who said UA was going to merge with anyone? CO can't do a deal with UA. DL doesn't want to. UA will have no choice but to fall further and end up back in bankruptcy before someone will step in and buy the PIECES but certainly not the whole.

AA will move when it makes good sense for them to do so. Not before and certainly not driven by UA and their desperate attempts to cover up how badly they are running their company - despite the longest, most costly airline bankruptcy ever.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

How many fine airlines is AA planning on destroying?

Perhaps more important than Alaska's SEA and ANC operations is the LAX 'hub'. (AS calls it a hub). If this were to happen perhaps the overall AA marketshare in LAX would allow AA to expand with some new LAX flights to Asia.

SEA isn't great for an Asian gateway but possibly with 787s flying transpacs it could be built into a nice gateway.

Of course AA wouldn't get to keep AS' DCA slots.

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

whindler,

Virtually EVERY major has had "difficult" mergers/consolidations with acquired carriers. ..... DL comes to mind.

This is(at times) a Dog eat dog business, and I'll admit that AA BITES harder than anyone.

As for DCA, should AA buy AS, I'm not sure HOW much up the priority ladder DCA/LAX would/"could" be for HDQ ??

AND you've brought up a GOOD point(LAX) that I've overlooked, which I would respectfully suggest would make a AA/AS an even "sweeter" PLUM !!

Those clouds gathering off in the distance are'nt CUMULUS, they're the clouds of (multi)CONSOLIDATION(s), and as a (former/retired) AA employee, I don't want to see another repeat of 1985, when (uncle) BOBBY CRANDALL made his "ONLY" mistake !!

NH/BB's

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

That is so true but I think that some how the TWU and AA would try to change the NMB rules on representational election on two unions representing the same work group. The IAM had their opportunity with the TWA merger and backed off and conceded to the TWU in fear of AMFA winning representation. According to the TWA merger the IAM had to petition the NMB and a representational run off would have occurred. So if AA buys or merges with Alaska I am sure that the AMFA would petition the NMB for a run off election. For this reson I believe that AA would stay clear of any AMFA represented airline.

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

1AA,
Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I was under the Impression that if two(seperate) unionized work groups , doing the same work, were suddenly lumped together, that there would be a "run off" election to see which one(union) finally evolved ?

As for(AS) AMFA, AS's AMFA numbers alone, could swing an AMFA election over TWU, in a head to head election.
However, last time I checked,.... The "OKIES", and texas "good ol' boys" ...(A).... already proved they DON'T want AMFA,AND.... B......are in the process of ridding themselves of TW.U(seless). .......SO, in that scenario, A "run off" might very well produce an (AMT) IAM/IBT result.

NH/BB's

 

[donttouchthebeauty]

Yea don't mess with the AFA. They are very keen. Did you see the strength in boycotting the Jodie foster film? Impressive. See how close they come to organizing Delta (2 times). Amazing.

So, Now that they are owned by a larger union. They have shown the world there keenness as they brought NWA management to there knees. My mistake, I forgot they backed off not once but twice on there chaos threats and now have the NWA group working under the last NWA offer.

The AFA does not inspire confidence in leadership or its organization. Quivering ball of (insert your own adjective and noun here) in the corner better fits a description of the AFA.

Oh Ms. Mikey - lets look at numbers - AFA-CWA has MANY MANY MANY of thousands more memebers than APFA - your little sellout union is no better than ours - but ours is definitely stronger - MUCH STRONGER....TENS OF THOUSANDS STRONGER.............

 

[777 fixer]

I respectfully disagree with 777 fixer.


NH/BB's

Well all right.

What advantage would AA get from merging with Alaska? If say UA and CAL were to merge would buying AS give AA some sort of competitive advantage? No, not really. Here's one thing it will give AA, a big headache. Integrating the two workforces would be a nightmare. Whether you staple them to the bottom or give them full senority you would still have a big mess on your hands.

Bob Crandall had it right when he swore off mergers after Air Cal. And Mike Boyd has it right tha tthe best thing for AA to do would be sit back and let the other airlines merge.

How many fine airlines is AA planning on destroying?

Not as many as US Air has.

 

[kirkpatrick]

Oh Ms. Mikey - lets look at numbers - AFA-CWA has MANY MANY MANY of thousands more memebers than APFA - your little sellout union is no better than ours - but ours is definitely stronger - MUCH STRONGER....TENS OF THOUSANDS STRONGER.............

It wouldn't make any difference. The IAM is much larger than the APFA as well, but a fat lot of good that did the TWA FA's. The APFA held all the cards and didn't so much as hold a meeting with the IAM. The same thing would happen with Alaska. AA would require dumping all scope clauses, and the AA unions would make the decisions.

MK

 

[FA Mikey]

Oh Ms. Mikey - lets look at numbers - AFA-CWA has MANY MANY MANY of thousands more memebers than APFA - your little sellout union is no better than ours - but ours is definitely stronger - MUCH STRONGER....TENS OF THOUSANDS STRONGER.............

Oh the "Ms. Mickey" thing, it that somehow funny? Or just someone completely over their head looking to make a personal attack, because there point is so weak? What do you know asked and answered.


I am sure the AFA's trolling of dues from many thousands of members in your mind makes them MUCH MUCH stronger. But even with that they needed to be taken over because of huge losses.

Those TENS OF THOUSANDS STRONGER...... Has AFA done anything but watch the pensions and pay for the TENS OF THOUSANDS hard working flight attendants disappear? How has those TENS OF THOUSANDS STRONGER helped the NWA f/a's? AFA the union of all bark and no bite.

 

[777 fixer]

Correct - true colors and VERY bad attitude towards everything it entailed. If I were to be bought out by AA i would just rather my company go chapter 7... AA wont be gobbling anyone up this round wothout a fight. And rightly so.

And what airline might that be?

 

[TWAnr]

Oh, there was ONE meeting all right. I believe that it took place at LAX. Sherry Cooper and Robert Roach, Jr. insisted on accepting nothing short of DOH for the TWAers. You know the rest of the story.

 

[donttouchthebeauty]

Oh the "Ms. Mickey" thing, it that somehow funny? Or just someone completely over their head looking to make a personal attack, because there point is so weak? What do you know asked and answered.


I am sure the AFA's trolling of dues from many thousands of members in your mind makes them MUCH MUCH stronger. But even with that they needed to be taken over because of huge losses.

Those TENS OF THOUSANDS STRONGER...... Has AFA done anything but watch the pensions and pay for the TENS OF THOUSANDS hard working flight attendants disappear? How has those TENS OF THOUSANDS STRONGER helped the NWA f/a's? AFA the union of all bark and no bite.

Sweetie - you have given up all that we have and more - minus the pensions, also the game is not over - by the end you will give up more rounds of concessions to keep those darling pensions and the company can still go chptr. 11 --- The AFA has done one thing for me that i am extremely proud of ( i have received my DOH ) for everything through many mergers within my company - many of employees have gotten what they were owed their DOH... You can not say that for the APFA... As far as your other comments - ahhh - not worth the energy my fingers put out to type... Go fly somewhere on your super 80 ---