AA should buy ALASKA Air !

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

TIME OUT.

There are some basic assumptions that are very flawed here.

Who said UA was going to merge with anyone? CO can't do a deal with UA. DL doesn't want to. UA will have no choice but to fall further and end up back in bankruptcy before someone will step in and buy the PIECES but certainly not the whole.

AA will move when it makes good sense for them to do so. Not before and certainly not driven by UA and their desperate attempts to cover up how badly they are running their company - despite the longest, most costly airline bankruptcy ever.

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OK WT, ...Point taken.

It's all speculation until something does happens !!
But you've gotta admit, with Goldman Sachs on board, well HMMMMMM :unsure: :unsure:

NH/BB's

 

[glasspilot]

How many fine airlines is AA planning on destroying?.....

SEA isn't great for an Asian gateway but possibly with 787s flying transpacs it could be built into a nice gateway.

TO ALL ALASKA EMPLOYEES: as a former TWA'er here is what would happen if AA gobbles you up. They would pull out of all Alaska cites and towns and turn Seattle into an RJ hub (ala St. Louis). Are you ready to have your airline career turned into a flaming wreckage?

 

[777 fixer]

Sweetie - you have given up all that we have and more - minus the pensions, also the game is not over - by the end you will give up more rounds of concessions to keep those darling pensions and the company can still go chptr. 11 --- The AFA has done one thing for me that i am extremely proud of ( i have received my DOH ) for everything through many mergers within my company - many of employees have gotten what they were owed their DOH... You can not say that for the APFA... As far as your other comments - ahhh - not worth the energy my fingers put out to type... Go fly somewhere on your super 80 ---

Seems to me you should have better things to be worrying about.

TO ALL ALASKA EMPLOYEES: as a former TWA'er here is what would happen if AA gobbles you up. They would pull out of all Alaska cites and towns and turn Seattle into an RJ hub (ala St. Louis). Are you ready to have your airline career turned into a flaming wreckage?

Two things here. One, why don't we ask the former Ozark pilots about their feelings on the TWA/Ozark merger. Two, you make it sound like AA and Alaska are actually going to merge. May I remind you that this whole thing is nothing more than a what if scenario put forth by NHBB.

 

[1AA]

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1AA,
Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I was under the Impression that if two(seperate) unionized work groups , doing the same work, were suddenly lumped together, that there would be a "run off" election to see which one(union) finally evolved ?


NH/BB's

Yes it is true that there would be a runoff. If the amfa does not petition a request then the TWU would represent everybody in that work group. AMFA would concede just like the IAM did with the TWA merger. Same goes for TWU in this case. Also note that in a runoff a third union can be on the ballot if they petition the NMB. I do not know the exact rules governing this but I know that if there was a runoff the IAM or IBT could petition and be on the ballot.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

777 fixer,

Your correct that M/A's are difficult.

AS's pilots would get a ratio.
(sadly) AS's F/A's would get the staple gun.
The AMT's would partition for a representative election(A perfect time to JETTISON twu, and AMFA....(think) IBT or (yuk) IAM.
Agents would stay non-union, and the FCS's would(sadly) stay TWU !

But the bigger point..(and this is where I part ways with Mike Boyd, who I like a lot of the time)(and I know a lot of people don't like MB)..is, that "This" wont be your usual M/A's period(Multi Mergers), coupled with a friendly Govt./courts.(Hardly a time to "stand on the sidelines doing nothing).
Picking up a HUB in LAX(and perhaps SEA) is "not chump change", and we ALL know, AA will grow more to the Orient.

And then these the little matter of the MONOPOLY AS has in ALASKA....A Good $$ Money Maker !!

Trying to take on a WHOLE NW, "WOULD" be a real Headache, a position I championed for years. ....Laying back from that kind of "move" is where I think Mike Boyd IS right(now).

Crandall was right(about the AIR-CALS) "20" years ago, but I think you'd agree, that the Industry has changed DRAMATICALLY, since then.

Keep your eye to the sky, on those CLOUDS that are building !


NH/BB's

 

[LGA Fleet Service]

I'd rather see growth from within as opposed to an acquisition simply for the sake of keeping up with the Jones'.

 

[aafsc]

Oh Ms. Mikey - lets look at numbers - AFA-CWA has MANY MANY MANY of thousands more memebers than APFA - your little sellout union is no better than ours - but ours is definitely stronger - MUCH STRONGER....TENS OF THOUSANDS STRONGER.............

And why is it then all AFA-CWA contracts are the worst in the industry? Why do you think there are/was a mass exodus of F/As at these carriers? Those tens of thoudands don't mean squat! The fact is the APFA contract at AA is superior to any AFA-CWA contract. Lowest wages, more hours, more expensive benefits, lost pensions and retirement medical at UA and US (especially US). AT NW the AFA-CWA does nothing but blow hot air while NW management rams an imposed contract down their throat...yeah AFA-CWA is great. With the two delays, they gave NW management time to get the courts to rule preventing a job action. AFA-CWA is nothing but talk, they just want the dues. They do not want a strike at NW.

Reagarding DOH, if that is the policy at AFA-CWA then so be it. I do remember however that during the 2000 US/UA attempted merger, some of the UA F/As were working to replace the AFA-CWA. Gee, I wonder why. APFA is not part of the AFA so it's SOLE duty is to protect its members. APFA is smaller but it is much more effective than the AFA-CWA.

 

[FA Mikey]

Sweetie

spare me not your sweetie

you have given up all that we have and more - minus the pensions,

Can to show us all how you came to this assertion? I have seen the pay tables I know I make more than you. I have a pension.

also the game is not over - by the end you will give up more rounds of concessions to keep those darling pensions and the company can still go chptr. 11 ---

Lets see AA is making money, a positve cash flow for longer than your airline. Also almost 6 billion in cash in the bank. No one but you see's an imminent filing of BK 11. But then Hey, come on show us your facts on it.

The AFA has done one thing for me that i am extremely proud of ( i have received my DOH ) for everything through many mergers within my company - many of employees have gotten what they were owed their DOH... You can not say that for the APFA...

Wow that's great. Lost your pensions, lost pay, lost work rules. But you got seniority over others. I guess that makes AFA a winner in your book? Personally I would choose pay, pension and work rules over super seniority. But that's just me.

So poor old APFA kept our pensions, kept a higher pay than the other carriers and for work rules. I am working 3 to 5 days a month less. Makes me very happy. All that without giving my seniority, my trips, days off vacation bid to someone who work for 30 years at the competition.

As far as your other comments - ahhh - not worth the energy my fingers put out to type... Go fly somewhere on your super 80 ---

Well since you take the time and energy on all the other stuff. I guess again it means you can't deny, or have an alternate point.

I guess that means you dislike our MD80's? But its a strong plane, thats made us alot of money. Its american made, maintained here in America. Cant say that 'bout them US airbus's.

 

[MCI transplant]

When are you and others going to get it thru your thick skull that the AA unions BY LAW had to protect their members. You were not members at the time so AA's unions owed you NO duty of representation. Ramp and mechanics went to binding arbitration and that still isn't good enough for you. AA fufilled it's promise and hired the twa people like they said they would. Most were furloughed 2 years later because the industry tanked and the twaers were not at the top of the combined lists. Interestingly, the only group of twaers that got their twa seniority was management, the only group where AA management could dictate seniority. Hmmmm. Of course seniority in management means nothing. AA has furloughed nAAtive management people while keeping the managers from twa.

<_< ---aa, It sounds like you've finally blown your cork! Your rantings are nothing more than pure B.S.! I think you've finally gone over the top!!! You really should get some help man!!!!

 

[donttouchthebeauty]

Reagarding DOH, if that is the policy at AFA-CWA then so be it. I do remember however that during the 2000 US/UA attempted merger, some of the UA F/As were working to replace the AFA-CWA. Gee, I wonder why. APFA is not part of the AFA so it's SOLE duty is to protect its members. APFA is smaller but it is much more effective than the AFA-CWA.
[/quote]


You are correct - that was the case - UAL stews wanted to replace b/c the stews at USAIR were way senior to them - and that is what you get in a M/A case with an AFA carrier. Which is what AA would get in an AA/AS merger... They would receive their DOH - the worst case scenario would be a slotting situation.. I really dont think the stapling situation will ever happen again at AA... The word has been out for quite some time - and i dont think people will be run over by the dallas dollies again - aint a gonna happen.

 

[aafsc]

<_< ---aa, It sounds like you've finally blown your cork! Your rantings are nothing more than pure B.S.! I think you've finally gone over the top!!! You really should get some help man!!!!

Every sentence in my previous post is absolute fact, not B.S. as you claim. Instead of coming on here and spewing how "you got screwed and my posts are nothing but B.S.", why don't you simply state where you believe I am in error using facts? Because you can't. It is you who need help. The fact that you did not get "super seniority" over the nAAtives eats away at you and this has been proven over and over again by your constant continual whining.

 

[donttouchthebeauty]

spare me not your sweetie
Can to show us all how you came to this assertion? I have seen the pay tables I know I make more than you. I have a pension.
Lets see AA is making money, a positve cash flow for longer than your airline. Also almost 6 billion in cash in the bank. No one but you see's an imminent filing of BK 11. But then Hey, come on show us your facts on it.
Wow that's great. Lost your pensions, lost pay, lost work rules. But you got seniority over others. I guess that makes AFA a winner in your book? Personally I would choose pay, pension and work rules over super seniority. But that's just me.

So poor old APFA kept our pensions, kept a higher pay than the other carriers and for work rules. I am working 3 to 5 days a month less. Makes me very happy. All that without giving my seniority, my trips, days off vacation bid to someone who work for 30 years at the competition.

Well since you take the time and energy on all the other stuff. I guess again it means you can't deny, or have an alternate point.

I guess that means you dislike our MD80's? But its a strong plane, thats made us alot of money. Its american made, maintained here in America. Cant say that 'bout them US airbus's.

I just cant help but laugh at you... Do you not understand simple economics? My guess is no.. First off you have 4 of the largest employers in the Airline industry that have filed chapter 11 (US, DAL, UAL, NWA).. All of those players have cut costs dramatically - and alot due to pension dumping - (i do not agree with this, however it happened) These 4 major players have now slashed costs along with air carriers such as AWA and JBLUE that have comp. cost structures. You have at least 6 if not 7 (including SWA who could undercut us all due to hedging and point to point system) airlines operating at a lower cost structure and lower payment obligations than AA and CAL.. Those 6 or 7 airlines carry FAR more traffic than AA and CAL do.. SOOOO... you have all of these carriers offering the same if not better product for a lower cost but you are all charging the same pices... hmmmm - i wonder who will win that one... The pilots at AA are salivating at keeping their pensions but dont be surprised if that falls to the wayside. AA has billions of money due after their extension fo their underfunded pension runs out, just a few years down the road... They will need that money to pay for those wonderful pensions you kept and dont forget that will leave them practically broke... (Especially if they were to partake in a M/A deal) You are just getting a slow start unfortunately on what others took advantage of (sadly) early on - and lets not also forget that USAir is making more money than AA for an air carrier one third its size... Just facts - I wish i still had a pension but we had a choice to make - job or no job - and most carriers followed suit - I truly hope you dont have to take that road but dont count it...

 

[aafsc]

The reason USAir made about $20 million more than AA last quarter is because it came squarely off the backs of US employees, lowest pay in the industry (even below Jetblue) lost pensions and benefits. US has all those costly operational and morale problems in PHL and they still made over $300 million for the quarter. This just goes to show how low your compensation really is. Any moron can make money when their employees are willing to work for shet! For those rates, I would do what thousands of US people did..LEAVE! AA made about $20 million less than US but our profit was not totally off the backs of AA employees.

With the new pension legislation, AA will have to contribute about $260 million a year to the pensions (less if the plan assets appreciate in value); AA can easily afford that.

 

[MCI transplant]

Seems to me you should have better things to be worrying about.
Two things here. One, why don't we ask the former Ozark pilots about their feelings on the TWA/Ozark merger. Two, you make it sound like AA and Alaska are actually going to merge. May I remind you that this whole thing is nothing more than a what if scenario put forth by NHBB.

<_< --- No Fixxer ! Ask their Mechanics! They got DOH!!!! So what's your point?

 

[aafsc]

<_< --- No Fixxer ! Ask their Mechanics! They got DOH!!!! So what's your point?

Ozark got their seniority but the twaers did not want to give it to them. Ozark was not a failed company in bankrupcy so their contracts, including scope and LLPs, HAD to be honored. twa bought the stock-the company; as where AA just bought certain assets in a liquidation. Even though the Ozark pilots got DOH, they still got screwed according to a former Ozark/twa pilot I talked to. Imagined what would have happened to the Ozark people (especially pilots) if 9/11 and everything else had happened right after twa bought Ozark.

Your just upset that Ozark got full DOH systemwide and you didn't with AA; thats it, isn't it?