? about AA's Future Fleet

[Hopeful]

I thought AA was dead set against having a mixed airline fleet? That's why we went all Boeing. I would guess with the additional training any cost benefit Airbus gave us would be off set.

True, But that was when finances were in better shape.

 

[goingboeing]

I'm aware that AA flies mainly MD-80's. But these are soon to be out-dated aircraft. Being in Philadelphia, we don't see much of AA. We only have a 3 flights a day to Chicago and Dallas. I was just curious to see if AA was gonna be going in a different direction in terms of its fleet. Thanks.

I saw a MSNBC financial story dealing with this very topic about a month ago.[Kudlow & Kramer]
They made the statement that AMR stock was excessively OVERVALUED and one of the MAJOR reasons was the aging fleet of AA.They pointed out that AA does not have many B-737 delievery slots purchased for the near future and AA probably won't be able to get them when they need them.You can't just decide today that you want 25 new B-737's and then get them tomorrow.
AA management will come to work one day and discover that they have a worn out-out-dated MD80 fleet and will not be able to get the B-737's as fast as they need them.
Airline history proves that airlines operate a particular type of aircraft for approx.25 years then retire it from the fleet.We have a large group of MD80'S[N200 Series tail numbers]that will be reaching this age in the next 2-5 years.
AA management has the choice of reducing the fleet size or getting the capital and purchasing the B-737 slots today for 2-5 years from now.We had B-737 slots and sold them off to Quantas.
Just what we need ,more Airbus aircraft!What a joke.

 

[MCI transplant]

So were the Miami to Frankfort flights. AA used 767-300's until they pulled the flight several years back.
Speaking of outdated aircraft, Airbus just announced that the A-300/A310 line will come to an end next year. Not soon enough.

Maybe AA should swap the A300 for the A330.

<_< Don't even think about it!!!!! :down:

 

[Hopeful]

Never mind the A300 with respect reliability and maintenance costs.
The point to consider is the seating and cargo capacity.
The replacement would have to be comparable with respect to those two factors.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< Age doesn't necessarily mean an aircraft is worn out! There was a time I could say that we could keep an aircraft going well beyond that 25 year expectancy. But frankly, I don't know if that's the case any longer! 😉

Never mind the A300 with respect reliability and maintenance costs.
The point to consider is the seating and cargo capacity.
The replacement would have to be comparable with respect to those two factors.

<_< Hopeful---- Wake up! "Reliability and maintenance costs" are the whole issue! What good is "seating and cargo capacity" when you have A-300's falling out of the sky @ JFK!!?

 

[FWAAA]

I saw a MSNBC financial story dealing with this very topic about a month ago.[Kudlow & Kramer]
They made the statement that AMR stock was excessively OVERVALUED and one of the MAJOR reasons was the aging fleet of AA.They pointed out that AA does not have many B-737 delievery slots purchased for the near future and AA probably won't be able to get them when they need them.You can't just decide today that you want 25 new B-737's and then get them tomorrow.

AA management has the choice of reducing the fleet size or getting the capital and purchasing the B-737 slots today for 2-5 years from now.We had B-737 slots and sold them off to Quantas.
Just what we need ,more Airbus aircraft!What a joke.

I agree with 777 fixer and will add my opinion that AA probably won't take very many more 737s. AA isn't scheduled to take delivery of any more 738s until 2013 at the earliest. By then, Boeing will likely be far along in developing a composite-constructed replacement for the 737 (built exactly like the 787).

Had September 11 disaster and the ensuing airline industry financial disaster never happened, AA would probably have bought 200+ 738s by 2013. Maybe even more. In a bizarre twist, AA will only have 75 or so 738s when that 737 replacement debuts. And it will be a cool airplane. Probably be a foot wider than the 737 (to overcome the A320 family's only advantage) and will be much more fuel efficient. And no doubt will possess transcon range (unlike the A320 one-stop transcons on US and B6 last month).

More Airbus? I wouldn't bet on it. The 787 is wildly successful and the A350 is a dismal failure for a reason. Airbus consistently overpromises, and consistently underdelivers. And then says "It's NOT OUR FAULT that the vertical stab snapped off that plane we built. Blame AA and their pilots for that disaster."

 

[Skymess]

AA management will come to work one day and discover that they have a worn out-out-dated MD80 fleet and will not be able to get the B-737's as fast as they need them.

AA management has the choice of reducing the fleet size or getting the capital and purchasing the B-737 slots today for 2-5 years from now.We had B-737 slots and sold them off to Quantas.
Just what we need ,more Airbus aircraft!What a joke.

I personally hope we never order another one of those garbage 737s again. What a hunk of junk. The absolute worst plane in our fleet. I'd take an 800 year old A-300 to work over that tin can 737 any day of the week. The thing sounds like the front gear is going to fall off on takeoff and landing and you would swear the gear door was going to blow out everytime the gear folds in. I've never heard such groaning and moaning. It's all we can do to keep a straight face as we are strapped into our doll sized jumpseats as the passengers stare at us in horror thinking we're going down. For a new plane the whole design is way outdated. Other than the new seat covers the entire feel is like some ancient airplane the Wright Brothers must've tested. Don't get me started. It gives me the dry heaves just thinking about working it. blech....

As FWAA has stated I hope that by the time we get rid of the stupid 80's we have a better option available.

:down: 737s stink.

 

[Bob Owens]

I agree with 777 fixer and will add my opinion that AA probably won't take very many more 737s. AA isn't scheduled to take delivery of any more 738s until 2013 at the earliest. By then, Boeing will likely be far along in developing a composite-constructed replacement for the 737 (built exactly like the 787).

Had September 11 disaster and the ensuing airline industry financial disaster never happened, AA would probably have bought 200+ 738s by 2013. Maybe even more. In a bizarre twist, AA will only have 75 or so 738s when that 737 replacement debuts. And it will be a cool airplane. Probably be a foot wider than the 737 (to overcome the A320 family's only advantage) and will be much more fuel efficient. And no doubt will possess transcon range (unlike the A320 one-stop transcons on US and B6 last month).

More Airbus? I wouldn't bet on it. The 787 is wildly successful and the A350 is a dismal failure for a reason. Airbus consistently overpromises, and consistently underdelivers. And then says "It's NOT OUR FAULT that the vertical stab snapped off that plane we built. Blame AA and their pilots for that disaster."

The industry was in a tailspin prior to Sept 11. People forget that there was only a total of 200 passengers spread out between the 4 airplanes used in the attacks. That means they were only 25% full.

I remember that load factors were already down and we couldnt figure out why the company just kept hiring more and more people when we were all expecting layoffs, it didnt make sense.

The fact is industry may not be as cyclical as it used to be but it still is cyclical.

 

[kirkpatrick]

Load factors averaged around 70% for decades prior to the 9/11 attacks. From what I understand, the hijacked flights were deliberately selected because of known light loads, making passenger control easier. Those four flights aren't representative of the the industry average at the time.

MK

 

[MAH4546]

I'm aware that AA flies mainly MD-80's. But these are soon to be out-dated aircraft. Being in Philadelphia, we don't see much of AA. We only have a 3 flights a day to Chicago and Dallas. I was just curious to see if AA was gonna be going in a different direction in terms of its fleet. Thanks.

Three flights a day to Chicago and Dallas? Not exactly:

PHL-DFW 7x S80
PHL-MIA 4x 738
PHL-ORD 5x S80, 2x CR7
PHL-SJU 2x 757
PHL-STL 4x ERJ

 

[FWAAA]

Load factors averaged around 70% for decades prior to the 9/11 attacks. From what I understand, the hijacked flights were deliberately selected because of known light loads, making passenger control easier. Those four flights aren't representative of the the industry average at the time.

MK

Exactly. It was a Tuesday morning, after all, typically a very light day. A week after Labor Day. And those flights were selected precisely because of their typically light load factors.

For the six months ended 6/30/01, AMR showed an operating loss of $764 million, most of which ($685 million) was a writedown of obsolete aircraft like the F100s. The fact that AA had just purchased a money-losing airline likely accounted for much of the rest of that operating loss. Yield was down in that quarter a whopping 2.1% compared to the same quarter in 2000 to 13.47 cents/mile (still higher than it is today). And yes, Load factor for the second quarter of 2001 was 72%, down from 76% the year before. Yeah, the economy was slowing, but it wasn't falling off a cliff.

I don't disagree with Mr Owens' characterization that the industry has always been cyclical and always will be cyclical - but that one hellish day singlehandedly caused the furlough of 100,000 airline employees. Congress handed out $5 billion to compensate all airlines for the three day shutdown yet that didn't come close to "fixing" things.

Mr Owens, I'm not blaming all the industry's current ills on September 11, 2001, but it sure as hell was one of the big contributing factors. That, and, of course, the coordinated desire on the part of management at all airlines to bust all their unions and impoverish all their unionized employees. Except, of course, for the unionized airlines where that hasn't happened.

 

[goingboeing]

I personally hope we never order another one of those garbage 737s again. What a hunk of junk. The absolute worst plane in our fleet. I'd take an 800 year old A-300 to work over that tin can 737 any day of the week. The thing sounds like the front gear is going to fall off on takeoff and landing and you would swear the gear door was going to blow out everytime the gear folds in. I've never heard such groaning and moaning. It's all we can do to keep a straight face as we are strapped into our doll sized jumpseats as the passengers stare at us in horror thinking we're going down. For a new plane the whole design is way outdated. Other than the new seat covers the entire feel is like some ancient airplane the Wright Brothers must've tested. Don't get me started. It gives me the dry heaves just thinking about working it. blech....

As FWAA has stated I hope that by the time we get rid of the stupid 80's we have a better option available.

:down: 737s stink.

What did a B-737 ever do to you?
It has one of the best safety records ever in the commercial airline business.[millions flight hours/accident ratio]
From an aircraft maintenace standpoint it is very mechanic friendly.Why do you think SWA likes them so much?

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Never mind the A300 with respect reliability and maintenance costs.
The point to consider is the seating and cargo capacity.
The replacement would have to be comparable with respect to those two factors.

==========================================================

Ah, HOPEFUL(one of my very..very few republican friends)😀

I agree with you (again).

First off, Very wise to NOT put ALL your eggs into one a/c manufactuers "basket"

I still say AA will replace the A-300 with the A-330, which ADDS MORE cx. space, AND frees up 777's in Europe.

This also allows AA to "start" retireing the older S-80's.

I predict AA will "try" to pick up more(AA "friendly) 757's.

This should "hold them" until the 787, or a "newer version" of a narrowbody is announced.

AS to getting the best $$$deal. AA virtually "STOLE" the Airbi from airbus, and got a sweetheart deal from Boeing, on some 767's to boot !!

AH, this mabey a "moot" point anyway. Down the road, we may be using BA a/c

NH/BB's

 

[Hopeful]

==========================================================

Ah, HOPEFUL(one of my very..very few republican friends)😀

I agree with you (again).

First off, Very wise to NOT put ALL your eggs into one a/c manufactuers "basket"

I still say AA will replace the A-300 with the A-330, which ADDS MORE cx. space, AND frees up 777's in Europe.

This also allows AA to "start" retireing the older S-80's.

I predict AA will "try" to pick up more(AA "friendly) 757's.

This should "hold them" until the 787, or a "newer version" of a narrowbody is announced.

AS to getting the best $$$deal. AA virtually "STOLE" the Airbi from airbus, and got a sweetheart deal from Boeing, on some 767's to boot !!

AH, this mabey a "moot" point anyway. Down the road, we may be using BA a/c

NH/BB's

NH/BB's!

How are you,pal?

I am sure that AA is looking towards the future for the A300 replacement. You're right. It will depend on who offers the better deal.

 

[Bagbelt]

Maybe Tupolev needs some work.