? about AA's Future Fleet

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

NH/BB's!

How are you,pal?

I am sure that AA is looking towards the future for the A300 replacement. You're right. It will depend on who offers the better deal.

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"Right on the $$ Money..Hopeful"

Focusing even closer, since boeing does'nt have a "LOGICAL" replacement for the A-300, at the moment,(Logical meaning NOT a 777), the A-330 is the perfect replacement, more CX space, CHEAPER than a 777, and can fly ALL over Europe, from JFK/BOS/DFW/ORD.....LAX ?

Also AA already is set up MX. wise for the AIRBI' .

Crandall never put ALL his $$$ EGGS in one a/c makers basket.
I suspect (micro) Crandall(Arpey) wont either.

NH/BB's

 

[MCI transplant]

Maybe Tupolev needs some work.

<_< -----Would probably be an improvement on AirBus!!

 

[Hopeful]

==========================================================
"Right on the $$ Money..Hopeful"

Focusing even closer, since boeing does'nt have a "LOGICAL" replacement for the A-300, at the moment,(Logical meaning NOT a 777), the A-330 is the perfect replacement, more CX space, CHEAPER than a 777, and can fly ALL over Europe, from JFK/BOS/DFW/ORD.....LAX ?

Also AA already is set up MX. wise for the AIRBI' .

Crandall never put ALL his $$$ EGGS in one a/c makers basket.
I suspect (micro) Crandall(Arpey) wont either.

NH/BB's

I can't remember if it was Carty who was running the show when AA dedicated itself to Boeing!

 

[FWAAA]

==========================================================
"Right on the $$ Money..Hopeful"

Focusing even closer, since boeing does'nt have a "LOGICAL" replacement for the A-300, at the moment,(Logical meaning NOT a 777), the A-330 is the perfect replacement, more CX space, CHEAPER than a 777, and can fly ALL over Europe, from JFK/BOS/DFW/ORD.....LAX ?

Also AA already is set up MX. wise for the AIRBI' .

NH/BBs: We covered this a few weeks ago, didn't we? 😛

The weight of a nonER 777 is just a few pounds more than the A-333; making the 777 a perfect replacement for the A-300. And the 777 has more cargo capacity (volume-wise as well as weight) than the A333, IIRC. Add in the benefits of fleet commonality and removing the danger that a vertical stab will suddenly snap off over JFK and kill nearly 300 poor souls and it becomes crystal clear: the 777 is the natural replacement.

 

[eolesen]

I can't remember if it was Carty who was running the show when AA dedicated itself to Boeing!

Who cares? Even a stopped clock is right twice a day, and there really wasn't a viable alternative other than having a split Airbus/Boeing fleet.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

NH/BBs: We covered this a few weeks ago, didn't we? 😛

The weight of a nonER 777 is just a few pounds more than the A-333; making the 777 a perfect replacement for the A-300. And the 777 has more cargo capacity (volume-wise as well as weight) than the A333, IIRC. Add in the benefits of fleet commonality and removing the danger that a vertical stab will suddenly snap off over JFK and kill nearly 300 poor souls and it becomes crystal clear: the 777 is the natural replacement.

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Your correct FWAAA, however I don't think we ever discussed the "Initial" Investment.

NH/BB's

 

[eolesen]

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Your correct FWAAA, however I don't think we ever discussed the "Initial" Investment.

NH/BB's

Go to Best Buy and look at the price tag on an Emerson DVD recorder and a Sony DVD recorder, or to a car lot and look at a Kia and a Toyota -- which is cheaper, and which would you expect to have to replace first?

We're talking about the same argument, with different manufacturers. You might be impressed with the A330, but the finance people aren't. Nobody likes to take writedowns on aircraft financing, and that's just what will happen if AA were to take on 330's versus expanding the existing 777 fleet or signing for 787's.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< For once I have to agree with aa's bean counters. besides the cost of settling the law suits from the families of the victims of airplanes falling out of the sky can get mighty expensive also. I have approx. forty years aircraft experience, counting military, and there should be nothing a pilot could do to make an aircraft come apart in flight!!! 😉

 

[FWAAA]

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Your correct FWAAA, however I don't think we ever discussed the "Initial" Investment.

NH/BB's

You're right.

Alaska announced on Monday that it would order 37 more new 738s and retire its 26 remaining MD-80s by 2008. The notable part of the press release was the assertion that Alaska would invest $750 million in the new airplanes but offsetting that would be $115 million of annual savings on fuel, maintenance, parts and training. That's a fast payback if those numbers are accurate.

If AA doesn't end up buying NW (or the valuable parts of it), then I expect AA to announce some new aircraft orders to take advantage of these kinds of savings.

 

[whlinder]

So, my question about the future AA fleet (and since I posted about it in another forum today and thus it is on my mind):

With all those MD-80s, and these wonderful gas prices, perhaps a re-engining program using GE-34 UDF engines?

I know this will never happen, but it is fun to think about.

 

[jimntx]

You're right.

Alaska announced on Monday that it would order 37 more new 738s and retire its 26 remaining MD-80s by 2008. The notable part of the press release was the assertion that Alaska would invest $750 million in the new airplanes but offsetting that would be $115 million of annual savings on fuel, maintenance, parts and training. That's a fast payback if those numbers are accurate.

If AA doesn't end up buying NW (or the valuable parts of it), then I expect AA to announce some new aircraft orders to take advantage of these kinds of savings.

One would think. Now, I was an English major; so, math is not my strong suit, but if the Alaska figures are correct, then...

1 new 737 = approx. $20million
Annual Savings from retiring 26 MD-80s: $115million
# of new 737s paid for just with savings: 4.75
# of years needed to pay for 26 new 737s: 5.47

I can't imagine why any airline would not jump at the chance to replace 30 year old a/c with investment amortization this fast. Particularly when you look at the fact that all the a/c would be paid for in less than 6 years, but would then have a useful life of another 15-25 years. Is there something I am missing here? :huh:

 

[FWAAA]

One would think. Now, I was an English major; so, math is not my strong suit, but if the Alaska figures are correct, then...

1 new 737 = approx. $20million
Annual Savings from retiring 26 MD-80s: $115million
# of new 737s paid for just with savings: 4.75
# of years needed to pay for 26 new 737s: 5.47

I can't imagine why any airline would not jump at the chance to replace 30 year old a/c with investment amortization this fast. Particularly when you look at the fact that all the a/c would be paid for in less than 6 years, but would then have a useful life of another 15-25 years. Is there something I am missing here? :huh:

That's exactly why I posted it. Why aren't all airlines dumping their older aircraft and ordering new? The annual savings (if realized) would more than make the payments on the new 738s, so it could be cash-flow positive even if the airline has to borrow the money (as Alaska plans to).

 

[IORFA]

AA was/is thinking of re-engining the S-80's. Boeing was/is trying to discourage that for obvious reasons. S-80's are an easy answer to replace. We have multiple orders for 737's deferred and waiting to restart or change to the next 737 replacement. I know that is a ways off as well. I think the pressing issue is replacing the A300's. With what? and When? Hopefully sooner rather than later. Don't forget about the 767's either.

 

[Skymess]

<_< For once I have to agree with aa's bean counters. besides the cost of settling the law suits from the families of the victims of airplanes falling out of the sky can get mighty expensive also. I have approx. forty years aircraft experience, counting military, and there should be nothing a pilot could do to make an aircraft come apart in flight!!! 😉

Amen

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< Well, almost nothing! We (TWA)did have one of our pilots take one of our 727's supersonic once! But was a hero in the end because he got the aircraft on he ground in one peace! 😉