AFA at Delta goes down in flames...

[aislehopper]

I was reading the AFA press release and it stated something like "the vast majority of votes cast, were cast for AFA." That may not be completely accurate wording but that statement leads me to believe that at least a portion of votes cast in favor of unionization were not cast for AFA. Is there any way to find out how many were cast for AFA and how many were cast for other unions?

Thanks in advance.

Visit the The National Mediation Board Eventually, there should be a press release or an investigation results posted. In that document, it will show the number of eligible voters, who voted, what groups received votes, and void votes.

 

[Cajun Flyer]

Baba, one can also say,based upon the trend of outsourcing both blue-collar positions(as well as white collar positions which I suspect you fall into) to low wage workers, that no one knows whether you'll be around in a years time. And Baba, it's disturbing to see such little regard for the effort put in to maintain both labor unions and the labor rights that every American citizen depend on.
Assuming you also believe in the"unique culture", let's translate that also. Unique culture has the meaning of we "Delta" hold all the cards and can and do take from you and tour family at will. Mostly because you buy the bill of goods. As well we're so confident of our game of manipulation that we give executives huge bonuses and don't care who knows it.
As to soaring fuel costs and soft economy, well,contractual COLA's adjusted for inflation, and money in everyones pockets would cure both...

You know I find it a bit ironic that you're talking about executive bonuses at Delta when the Northwest CEO stands to gain well over 11 million dollars for staying through the close of the merger. I don't see where any union at NWA has been able to stop its board from awarding ridiculous bonuses and salaries to its management. I don't think it's happened at any airline.

For many, many years Delta F/A's were at or right near the top of the industry in pay. We were finally surpassed by American with their latest contract right before September 11th. In fact, I would often read that unionized carriers were aiming for what Delta F/A's were paid when they negotiated new contracts. I'm not saying that Delta has enjoyed the best of the best in regard to pay, work rules, etc., but there are so many AFA people on here who think we have gotten nothing from the company and that the only way we're going to get anything is to bring in the AFA. If you take an honest look at AFA contracts, they're not all that great! Delta management has ALWAYS lived in fear of a union and that's been a way that Delta F/A's have benefited over time. With the bankruptcy, Delta flight attendants took the same pay cuts as everyone else at Delta except the pilots who were hit much harder. I don't think Delta F/A's suffered a lot more than F/A's at Northwest, United or US Airways when the cuts came. I think we all suffered pretty equally. I got furloughed in 2003. F/A's at United and US Airways lost their pensions even with a contract.

I guess the point that I'm trying to make here is that there are some benefits that unions have been able to bring about and then there are others that they have not been able to bring about or protect. It's not a one-sided issue and we all need to look at the details to decide what each union can do for us. Sadly, I have not seen great results from the AFA.

 

[aislehopper]

So, I don't know what "different" union would be elected. It would not be Teamsters as they were voted out in favor of PFAA. The only one might be TWU and I'm not sure that would happen.

I think that an independant or even decertification might be their goal. With an independant, they can have their own union, or remain independant long enough to get around the AFL-CIO "no raid" clause.

The thing that we all have to remember is that this is business, not personal.

Agreed. This debate is better when we focus on issues and not personalities. When all of the dust settles, we still fly together no matter how we feel about the afa issue.

 

[hunter94965]

you know. i am not one who likes when airlines staple people to the bottom. but in this case . i am all for it. the nw f/a should just put all delta f/a at the bottom of the list. thet clearly do not want to be a part of a union . and since there are more nw f/a's than delta f/a's since they did not want a union then they should be put on the bottom. see how they like that.

I really admire your writing ability, etops1. You have a unique understanding of formal English that is only surpassed by your lack of facts. DAL has over 13,000 F/A's. NWA has around 7800 F/A's. I can't see how anyone is going to be placed on the bottom of any list.

 

[BABABOOY]

For many, many years Delta F/A's were at or right near the top of the industry in pay. We were finally surpassed by American with their latest contract right before September 11th. In fact, I would often read that unionized carriers were aiming for what Delta F/A's were paid when they negotiated new contracts. I'm not saying that Delta has enjoyed the best of the best in regard to pay, work rules, etc., but there are so many AFA people on here who think we have gotten nothing from the company and that the only way we're going to get anything is to bring in the AFA. If you take an honest look at AFA contracts, they're not all that great! Delta management has ALWAYS lived in fear of a union and that's been a way that Delta F/A's have benefited over time. With the bankruptcy, Delta flight attendants took the same pay cuts as everyone else at Delta except the pilots who were hit much harder. I don't think Delta F/A's suffered a lot more than F/A's at Northwest, United or US Airways when the cuts came. I think we all suffered pretty equally. I got furloughed in 2003. F/A's at United and US Airways lost their pensions even with a contract.

I guess the point that I'm trying to make here is that there are some benefits that unions have been able to bring about and then there are others that they have not been able to bring about or protect. It's not a one-sided issue and we all need to look at the details to decide what each union can do for us. Sadly, I have not seen great results from the AFA.

and it looks like over 60% of Delta F/A's agree with your assesment.

 

[cooper43]

you know. i am not one who likes when airlines staple people to the bottom. but in this case . i am all for it. the nw f/a should just put all delta f/a at the bottom of the list. thet clearly do not want to be a part of a union . and since there are more nw f/a's than delta f/a's since they did not want a union then they should be put on the bottom. see how they like that.

Who are you?............ It is Delta aquireing NWA and there are more DAL f/a's than nwa f/a's. On what grounds do you think DAL should be stappled to the bottom? You are obviously uninformed and ignorant. At least now there will be a fair negotiation of seniority.

 

[cooper43]

Does anyone have any predictions of how the NO vote for AFA will affect the merger of f/a's at the two airlines? Since DAL seems to be the surviving carrier I wonder how they will reach out to NW f/a's to bring them into the DAL culture. I think that DAL will want to show them that being non union is not so bad so maybe they will be generous to them. I am sure they will try to show them how responsive they can be to their concerns. I will be interesting to see what happens next.

 

[dapoes]

Does anyone have any predictions of how the NO vote for AFA will affect the merger of f/a's at the two airlines? Since DAL seems to be the surviving carrier I wonder how they will reach out to NW f/a's to bring them into the DAL culture. I think that DAL will want to show them that being non union is not so bad so maybe they will be generous to them. I am sure they will try to show them how responsive they can be to their concerns. I will be interesting to see what happens next.

Of course they will! DAL will welcome them with open arms. There's no benefit from not wanting them as part of the DAL family. It would go against any smart business and moral decision under the circumstances.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Does anyone have any predictions of how the NO vote for AFA will affect the merger of f/a's at the two airlines? Since DAL seems to be the surviving carrier I wonder how they will reach out to NW f/a's to bring them into the DAL culture. I think that DAL will want to show them that being non union is not so bad so maybe they will be generous to them. I am sure they will try to show them how responsive they can be to their concerns. I will be interesting to see what happens next.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Well cooper43, you've overlooked just one lil' "tidbit",...that being, ALL of the RED TAIL F/A's(NW), ..KNOW beyond ANY reseonable doubt,.........what "DICK" Anderson..is "all about" !!

They are..WITHOUT Question, the savviest group of F/A's in the Industry.

Addressed to ..LUKE Skywalker;

Luke, you said all along that you hoped for a Yes vote in the 40 percentile.
Congratulations, you and yours achieved your goal. now simply "add water"(the NW group), shake well and pour,.........................PRESTO ..Instant UNION at DL.

I cannot Imagine the "uphill battle" that you and your fellow progressive DL F/a's had to climb, to get the 40%. That in itself is Astounding, within a KOOL AID culture like ATL/DL.
trust me,......the brain trusts at DL, are almost Psycotic over the 40%, knowing that the RED TAILS, WELL versed about Anderson, are looming "right around the corner"

One other thing. Of the non-voting DL F/A's , MANY will have NO choice, but to vote YES, simply to protect their jobs,.......................Because of the pro-Union. NW F/A's. THAT I can assure you, will happen !!

Either way, you, and your group, PLUS the RED TAILS..............."WIN", while Anderson and his "lemmings"................LOSE.

Stay strong, and watch your back.
Fresh Troops are Enroute !!

 

[cooper43]

Yeah she is dreaming. Let her laugh now, but we will now at least get “fair and equitableâ€￾.we can join afa later.

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

At least now there will be a fair negotiation of seniority.

Actually, cooper..this may very well not be the case as was explained to you NUMEROUS times over the course of the past weeks.
To NW (and many of us here at Delta), the only fair integration of seniority is DOH. Again, as Danny has explained, NW FAs may very well reject any integration that puts ANY of their FAs at a disadvantage and then it will go to an arbitratior who will decide (not negotiate) your seniority.
I understand there were quite a few junior FAs (esp in NY) who, like you, took Delta up on their offer to "keep their options open" and wait for the second vote so that Delta might get them preferable seniority. (Don't be so sure that your gamble is going to pay off.) This could have accounted for as much as 2-3% of the vote. Combine this with a few of the early-outers who didn't vote because they're leaving (as self-centered as that sounds I understand from a few sources that it is true) and I think you might have had a truer number of 43-44%. I think this would cause Delta Mgt. to pause and really think going forward.
To FA Mikey who predicts the fat lady has sung: If memory serves me correctly, you are an AA FA. You are certainly welcome to post your opinion, as uninformed as it may be, but I might suggest you tend to your affairs at AA. Your company did not gain the benefit of restructuring under the old BK code and fuel is at $132/barrel. Musing about the weight of our "fat lady", I would think, should be the least of your worries. Besides, you don't know how much our fat lady weighs as we don't know the exact girth of yours either. Thanks.

 

[southwind]

you know. i am not one who likes when airlines staple people to the bottom. but in this case . i am all for it. the nw f/a should just put all delta f/a at the bottom of the list. thet clearly do not want to be a part of a union . and since there are more nw f/a's than delta f/a's since they did not want a union then they should be put on the bottom. see how they like that.

If there is any stapling going on , it will be NW employees stapled on the bottom !

 

[2BlacknBlue]

Speaking on Delta's managements direct relationship with its employees: When is DL going to relate directly to the employees that they plan on rescinding the July 1st pay increase, now that the f/a's have voted the union down? :huh:

 

[Coffee_Tea_Or_Me]

Baba, one can also say,based upon the trend of outsourcing both blue-collar positions(as well as white collar positions which I suspect you fall into) to low wage workers, that no one knows whether you'll be around in a years time. And Baba, it's disturbing to see such little regard for the effort put in to maintain both labor unions and the labor rights that every American citizen depend on.
Assuming you also believe in the"unique culture", let's translate that also. Unique culture has the meaning of we "Delta" hold all the cards and can and do take from you and tour family at will. Mostly because you buy the bill of goods. As well we're so confident of our game of manipulation that we give executives huge bonuses and don't care who knows it.
As to soaring fuel costs and soft economy, well,contractual COLA's adjusted for inflation, and money in everyones pockets would cure both...

AMEN! I am soooo sick of this guy's pathetic, angry whining. Has a sad, sad life and is clearly a miserable person to the nth degree.

AND, talk about a spin! The 60% is NOT accurate. It is not a yes/no vote, so it is not a true statement to say that 60% voted NO. Many didn't vote. AND, true to the Bush administration's pro-####, anti-labor stances, the NMB allowed Delta to keep some names on the active list that were DECEASED.

Understand this Delta anti-union FAs -- you WILL have a union in the very near future. NWA FAs may not all be 100% satisfied with AFA-CWA, but you can bet your job that the NWA FA group will vote to have a union over not having one, especially with evil people at Delta who think NWAers should be stapled.

Your day will come. Meanwhile, as the industry plummets, you may enjoy no bargaining power and have your pay slashed and quality of life deteriorate with no representation. I am sure you are really enjoying your 2.5 hours a day of vacation as it is.

 

[MMB]

... especially with evil people at Delta who think NWAers should be stapled...

Not all of them, just these:

you know. i am not one who likes when airlines staple people to the bottom. but in this case . i am all for it. the nw f/a should just put all delta f/a at the bottom of the list...

Won't happen though.
CSA: DOH
Northeast: Dovetailed - NE had jr. people.
Western: DOH - FA's only, DL top level protected.
New hires from PanAm: DOH