AFA Labor Relations Thread 10/6---

[Zarah]

I do not think anybody that was recalled should be trusted with negotiations that impact my life. Sad that I have no official say in the matter other then the letter I wrote voicing my opinion.

 

[Toothy Grin]

Please remember, Jeff, is NOT at the negotiating table single handedly hashing out differences with the company. He is part of a team that is composed of east and west flight attendants. Agreements are signed off on by the Pres of each council.

For the East, you have your beloved MF to make sure that Jeff doesn't do anything wrong & Carol too. If you are so concerned about Jeff being there and going hog wild, then your concerns speak more to the lack of control or say that Mike and Carol have when working with the west council. So in essence, you should be putting up a battle cry to oust them.

Go for it.

Also, I thought the papers were left out on the table and that all people present had seen them many times. They were copied with a group of other papers ...

Get this contract finished before the next merger or we will all be right back to where we started from 4 years ago. For the west, this is important because the east will at least receive snap backs in the coming years, if I am not mistaken. For the west, it would mean what? 8 years of potential contract stalls and starts.

Write you letters of anger, but you are only hurting yourself and others by trying to have Jeff, not be on the negotiating team.

TEAM.

 

[theFLYonthewall]

Please remember, Jeff, is NOT at the negotiating table single handedly hashing out differences with the company. He is part of a team that is composed of east and west flight attendants. Agreements are signed off on by the Pres of each council.

For the East, you have your beloved MF to make sure that Jeff doesn't do anything wrong & Carol too. If you are so concerned about Jeff being there and going hog wild, then your concerns speak more to the lack of control or say that Mike and Carol have when working with the west council. So in essence, you should be putting up a battle cry to oust them.

Go for it.

Also, I thought the papers were left out on the table and that all people present had seen them many times. They were copied with a group of other papers ...

Get this contract finished before the next merger or we will all be right back to where we started from 4 years ago. For the west, this is important because the east will at least receive snap backs in the coming years, if I am not mistaken. For the west, it would mean what? 8 years of potential contract stalls and starts.

Write you letters of anger, but you are only hurting yourself and others by trying to have Jeff, not be on the negotiating team.

TEAM.

With all due respect, I don't want him or Lisa there they are liars and thieves. Obviously you fed into the BS that was dished out by those two. The papers were on the table to be used at the bargaining not to be copied and shared. By their own admission they did exactly that. As far as I am concerned ethically and morally they both need to be gone. As far as MF and CA negotiating for the EAST hunny you couldn't ask for any better team, and the WEST should thank God the EAST has extremely experienced and talented flight attendants to put into a position to negotiate you a better contract. The WEST has no one that can match that experience or talent. Trust me the company is loving all of this in house fighting, it shows them how unorganized and immature this union is. Its pathetic.

 

[Travelpro72]

This G'damn airline is a joke, the local offices are a joke and so is AFA int'l when you need their help. I don't care for ANYONES style or vision at the negotiations table to be quite honest. I also don't care for the professionalism I have seen coming from the AFA 66 office. As for the banter of "just get us a contract already".....ya honestly believe that the company will step up to the plate now and hash out a contract? 🙄 The company is negotiating slowly on purpose. Couple that with the fact that we have a union wanting to hold on to so much old crap that it's going to be another contract of twists, turns, patchwork quilt language and BS. Just you wait and see. I'm guessing 2020. 🙄

 

[Coach Cabin]

With all due respect, I don't want him or Lisa there they are liars and thieves.

Give it a REST. The papers were left on a table for DAYS and, as mentioned, copied along with hundreds of others. The Watergate break-in it was not. If the papers were so G'damn sensitive why didn't MF have them locked in a briefcase and handcuffed to his wrist?

Where is all the AFA (East) outrage for USAPA? Talk about LIARS and THIEVES! Yet most of the east posters here wave pom-poms for them and are actively promoting hitching our AFA wagon to the USAPA star. Where is the "outrage" there? GMAFB. Your diatrabes about liars, thieves, morals and ethics are hollow and oddly selective.

This event, while unfortunate, should have been a non event. I swear, talk about not being able to see the forest for the trees.

 

[VAflyGal]

Give it a REST. The papers were left on a table for DAYS and, as mentioned, copied along with hundreds of others. The Watergate break-in it was not. If the papers were so G'damn sensitive why didn't MF have them locked in a briefcase and handcuffed to his wrist?

Where is all the AFA (East) outrage for USAPA? Talk about LIARS and THIEVES! Yet most of the east posters here wave pom-poms for them and are actively promoting hitching our AFA wagon to the USAPA star. Where is the "outrage" there? GMAFB. Your diatrabes about liars, thieves, morals and ethics are hollow and oddly selective.

This event, while unfortunate, should have been a non event. I swear, talk about not being able to see the forest for the trees.

This isn't about the pilots. If you wanna talk about USAPA carry your rant over to the pilot thread. *click ignore*

 

[Travelpro72]

Here's the rub. You have Jeff who was recalled now in the office at Lisa's request. My question is this, regardless of what his new "duties" will be.....is he being payed with dues members money"? So because Lisa wants him there the membership who voted him out will STILL pay for his "services"? No YOU save it. So because you can't find someone out there with the G'damn brains to take over everyone is stuck with HIM? Not to mention HER who is THE MOST unprofessional and out of her league President you could find? She's walking a fine line right now according to the by-laws. This situation is not over. So again, NO people won't just sit by while she continues on about her business. 🙄 Talk about not seeing the forest throught the trees and being blind. :blink: Joke's on you buddy.

 

[nic4us]

Do you not hold an election after a recall?

 

[Coach Cabin]

This isn't about the pilots. If you wanna talk about USAPA carry your rant over to the pilot thread. *click ignore*

It's not a rant against USAPA. It's a rant again selective finger pointing. It's a rant about the (morally and ethically superior) East telling everyone out West what to do.....all the while looking the other way, if not condoning, far worse actions in their own back yard. Kind of like Republicans.

 

[VAflyGal]

It's not a rant against USAPA. It's a rant again selective finger pointing. It's a rant about the (morally and ethically superior) East telling everyone out West what to do.....all the while looking the other way, if not condoning, far worse actions in their own back yard. Kind of like Republicans.

You brought up USAPA so I said what I said. Bottom line, and I'm not pulling an East v/s West argument because I SUPPORT our fellow AFA brothers and sisters out there and HOPE, all things considered, both sides will remain professional and move forward with negotiations. A lot of good stuff is being negotiated and I hope this hiccup doesn't stall it another four years. That said, it is what it is. They did break ethical rules and they were found guilty of what they were charged with. At the end of the day, Lisa remains, like it or not. Don't make this any less than what it was. The point is it's done now.

Please save the pilot union debacle, as I asked nicely before, for that thread. Most of us F/As can play nice here. Don't be a divider.

 

[VAflyGal]

It's not a rant against USAPA. It's a rant again selective finger pointing. It's a rant about the (morally and ethically superior) East telling everyone out West what to do.....all the while looking the other way, if not condoning, far worse actions in their own back yard. Kind of like Republicans.

Ok, I keep rereading your post and I become more and more insensed. I don't know a single person over here that is acting "morally and ethically superior" and I won't speak for everyone, but I will say what they did was WRONG, like it or not. Nobody is telling you what to do, either. We are trying to work TOGETHER, despite your president's sticky fingers on confidential and sensitive documents that contained USAPA information and her ulterior motives with her PILOT HUSBAND. Save your lecture for someone who lacks a backbone because she and Jeff were WRONG, like it or not.

I hope they can play nice and can represent your members as they are supposed to.

Now I'm done giving thought anything else you said. Flamebait with your political comments too. Be smart before you throw out such ignorance.

 

[Toothy Grin]

Ethics, ethics everywhere!

There are always two sides - think about this: How ethical was it to have supposedly confidential papers laying around for days? Does this not automatically imply that these sacred documents are really not that sacred. How ethical is it to restrict access to "eyes only" to your west counterparts. Doesn't the very existence of the documents and content discussed therein show that M was holding negotiations with usapa.

Once again, Jeff was recalled from his office as Sec/Treas. The other appointed position he held as JNC is unrelated. If you want to look at his actions then I would think you would be glad he is on the JNC...at least you know if there is any hidden agenda by the company he'll bring it to all our attention..just as he did with Mike's papers. Do you somehow believe that he is going to negotiate a cluase that he gets a point off of every flight flown by every fa? What exactly do you think he is getting away with now?

As for the comment, none else is qualified to take his place on the JNC, the correct way to think about this is that there probably are qualified people, of those people, some are unwilling to step forward, don't have the time, couldn't care less...still others KNOW that it would be sheer stupidity to walk in to a meeting with only a few weeks of briefing and expect any sort of positive results, much less negotiate anything with any competency. "I'm gonna do my best" really does not cut. Do you really want Mike, Carol ted and alice to have to rebrief the new JNC member everytime something comes up that they don't understand or rehash something again even though it was already covered. Do you really want to stall things out? Some say the company is stalling, but if Jeff were removed or to step down, then any stalling rests soley with the JNC. Nice.

"As far as MF and CA negotiating for the EAST hunny you couldn't ask for any better team, and the WEST should thank God the EAST has extremely experienced and talented flight attendants to put into a position to negotiate you a better contract. The WEST has no one that can match that experience or talent. "

Mike and Carol are so great. MM hmm. Yup, I've read that so many times throughout so many postings, haven't you? They are just as loathed as anyone else and you know it. The reason they are able to contribute so much in this particualr process is because they have a contract that sucks, and both have been around for many, many years, even longer than awa contract. Therefore, they already know what works well and what does not. This is why using your own comments, Jeff needs to stay on the JNC. You know, we on the west are so inexperienced and haven't been around as long. Therefore, changing the JNC now would be too much of an upset for us. Thank you for your concern.

xoxo,

hunny!

 

[VAflyGal]

Ethics, ethics everywhere!

There are always two sides - think about this: How ethical was it to have supposedly confidential papers laying around for days? Does this not automatically imply that these sacred documents are really not that sacred. How ethical is it to restrict access to "eyes only" to your west counterparts. Doesn't the very existence of the documents and content discussed therein show that M was holding negotiations with usapa.


Correct me if I am wrong but Mike left so abruptly because we parked a plane in the Hudson and he flew back east to be of assistance to our crew.
And I believe the documents were in his bag, not laying out, but so what if they were. They were private. Regardless they broke the rules.

CONTRACT, puhleeeze!!!

 

[Travelpro72]

Can someone answer a simple question please? If Jeff was recalled yet is being asked to stay in the office to help Lisa in the interim is he being payed with dues money payed by AFA66 members? Ya know, the ones who recalled him.🙄 😉

 

[hp_fa]

We are trying to work TOGETHER, despite your president's sticky fingers on confidential and sensitive documents that contained USAPA information and her ulterior motives with her PILOT HUSBAND.

You do remember that her "PILOT HUSBAND" was a member of the USAPA BPR at that time correct? So before you think about inferring something wrong with the "PILOT HUSBAND" finding out anything confidential from those documents, USAPA would have had to have been keeping secrets from its own BPR members for that to happen. Of course if you are correct, then that is proof that the East folks are actively treating the West folks as second or third class citizens, which we all KNOW isn't the truth.