AFA''s CHAOS, its just wrong.

[MissAAmerican]

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On 8/31/2002 4:28:10 PM

I love seeing you AA people talk about how unwise and untimely this strike is. As if you haven't done it yourselves. What would you suggest these F/A's do? Work for substandard wages to keep the company afloat? Why don't you all volunteer to give AA 20% of your wages to help them through these hard times? I'm sure you'de be singing a different tune if you were affected at all.



I say good luck to all the Midex Flight Attendants out there. Perhaps these AA people don't stand behind you but to be honest, I wouldn't stand behind any action the AA people took either, given their track record of screwing their fellow employees.
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Cart Pusher,
Lets see if I have this right. Because I asked how this could be a good thing right now, I'm not "standing behind" these folks? Also by "sacrificing" just a "few" of your fellow employees (fired from CHAOS) even though this may devastate these "few" financially, it's "O.K"? Because they will "evenually" get their jobs back (never mind WHEN). Back in "93" yes we did strike...a few differences. Majors were not declaring Bankruptcy and 9-11 had not happen the year before. By the way, we ALL (except a select few) went on strike at the same time, we didn't reap the benefits off the backs of just a "few" co-workers. Never fear, I'm sure after UAL and UsAir give their 20%, we'll be right behind them, so thanks for your concern over our finances. YOU wouldn't by chance be a TWAer?[]

 

[Transcon]

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On 9/1/2002 12:15:45 AM

With a little help, I found an article which discusses this very subject. One of you can read it and explain it to me [:bigsmile:]

The article is in pdf format and can be found at http://www.bnabooks.com/ababna/laborlawyer/18.1.pdf

The article is entitled "Partial Strikes under the RLA: The need for a Doctrine of Unprotected Concerted Activity."

While you are explaining things to me, can you also explain how to post a working link.

AH
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AH:
Lets see if this helps you link...

18.1.pdf

Then left click...18.1pdf 08-AUG-02
I believe you will need Acrobat Reader?

...maybe not.[]

 

[FA Mikey]

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On 8/31/2002 5:06:37 PM

Unless Midex can somehow change the law, they cannot legally fire the F/A's for taking what is currently a LEGAL job action. That then means that they can't be replaced, since they weren't fired.
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If they want to train people, and while someone is out on strike. They can be replaced. They can not be fired. After the strike is called of. They must be called back in seniority order as openings happen. The company does not have to let the replacements go. That is the law.

 

[Rhino]

Actually, MidEx can terminate any chaotic FA.

Whether or not these FA's would be reinstated would be determined in court. Judge Rothstein's shaky legal reasoning is not something I would bet my career on.

Wonder if the MidEx FAs have been fully informed of the risk they are taking.

Terminate 5 FAs and it's over. Most FAs live paycheck to paycheck unless there's a second household income. I used to date a CAL FA during their strike. Very ugly. No winners.

MidEx Lockout.

 

[coolflyingfool]

Have any flights been effected by CHAOS yet at MidwestExpress? Just wondering.........

 

[mturpiz]

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On 9/1/2002 9:18:14 PM

Have any flights been effected by CHAOS yet at MidwestExpress? Just wondering.........
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Since being free to take "self-help" early Friday morning, no flight disruptions have taken place at this time.

 

[CALFLYBOY]

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On 9/1/2002 6:41:16 AM

Actually, MidEx can terminate any chaotic FA.


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NO! Ultimately the report stated that the Alaska CHAOS activity WAS protected self help under the RLA. Hence, the reason why AFA continues to use CHAOS as means of self help. Now the CNN article says if any of the FA's do CHAOS, then they will be "locked out" until a contract is agreed upon. During the period of "self help" employers can lock out strikers or "permanently replace" them. Midwest Express understands that they can not legally "terminate" a FA while engaging in CHAOS since the NMB has released the parties to seek "self help."

I just hope the FA's stick together! They need a little dignity in their pay and work rules! []

 

[Rhino]

CALFly, read the link provided re Bernstein's ruling.

Her decision was roundly criticized. At the time.

I wouldn't be surprised to see MidEx terminate an FA, though they may indeed be subsequently reinstated.

 

[KCFlyer]

Here...this might sum up the Alaska ruling: Alaska Airlines was wrongly decided.

That's from the Labor Lawyer analysis. Yep, Alaska was a precedent. But there has been time to analyze the ruling, and Midex could go to court armed with a great deal of analysis that wasn't available at the time. And they could very well win.

 

[CALFLYBOY]

Yes, I have read the article a couple of times. The fact of the matter is airline management can NOT legally terminate a CHAOS participant. Yes, they can be "permanently replaced" or "locked out" during the period of self help until an agreement is reached between the union and the company.

Yes, the author wholly criticized Rothstein's ruling. I will contradict my earlier statement, Rothstein failed to rule that CHAOS was "protected activity", but she did rule that termination of a CHAOS striker was not permissable.

Therefore, since Rothstein's ruling, the union takes the position that CHAOS is a form of self help within their arsenal. And I wholly agree. When the two parties are released to self help by the NMB, the union has the right to engage in full strikes, partial strikes, slowdowns, etc. These are the economic tools available to them to help force the company back to the bargaining table and negotiate and equitable agreement.

 

[KCFlyer]

Or....a judge could deem CHAOS illegal and hit them (AFA) up with a fine, ala APA at AA.

 

[Rhino]

The point, CAL, is that a few MidEx FAs may be risking much.

It will be interesting to see whether the comapny seeks a preliminary ruling. I haven't been able to find out whether they have applied for any injunctions.

 

[CALFLYBOY]

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On 9/3/2002 5:16:16 PM

The point, CAL, is that a few MidEx FAs may be risking much.


It will be intersting to see whether the comapny seeks a preliminary ruling. I can't find out.
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There is risk with any strike action! There is risk if they do nothing. Sure the company can seek an injunction against a CHAOS action, but doubtful since a judge has ruled that CHAOS participants must be returned to work. The company gains no leverage against the FA's CHAOS action with an injunction or threatened termination.

 

[Rhino]

CAL,

<The company gains no leverage against the FA's CHAOS action with an injunction...>

Not sure what you mean.

 

[CALFLYBOY]

The difference, KCI, is APA had never been released from by NMB to self help from Sec. 6 negotiations(were they in negotiations at the time, just working on the integration agreement, or both?). Therefore the APA action was illegal. AFA at Midwest HAS been released by the NMB. Therefore, CHAOS may ensue. Besides, Midwest Express has already explained to the media how CHAOS participants will be handled.