Albert Einstein: God is a "childish superstition"

[MMB]

Depends on what stage in his research and life you examin.

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
-- Albert Einstein

 

[EastUS]

As far as I am concerned, when I die I become worm food.

"I have 70 +/- years and that's all I have." Don't even fantasize that even said 70+ is anything that's "under warranty" in any way, shape or form.
"The concept of a finite existence does not scare me." Well and good sir/ma'am...the "concept" isn't what one feels or frets over, whenever any "Oh Sh-t!!..This is IT!!/Game OVER!!" moments come up....and by the Grace of God..or fate, or merely whimsical chance as you will....passes without your immediate extinction....trust me on at least that.

Einstein: "I do not believe in the God of theology who rewards good and punishes evil. My God created laws that take care of that. His universe is not ruled by wishful thinking, but by immutable laws" Further supported by his observation that "God does not throw dice."

"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish". I don't see this as, in any way, indicating any lack of faith in something higher and actually unimaginable to any human mind....but rather a reasoned contempt for things "religious", which I can relate to myself. It's impossible to ever fully know the thoughts and feelings of any other person, and we're all left to guess, and extrapolate from what limited interaction we actually have, through only our extremely limited sensing abilities. Attempting to "understand" anything outside of our immediate enviornment is tough by itself..much less seeking any "understanding" of literally, unimaginably greater forces. Taste, touch, smell, and sight, coupled with our barely evolved simian brain structures...collectively, just doesn't really reach out very far at all.

Whatever else is true...We have, at best, the life expectancy of a glorified fruit-fly. Imho; regardless of any/all individual belief structures, it behooves us all to live as lovingly and decently as we can...which ain't no small job to attempt, given the still-rather primative and violent nature of our species' "wiring". I've certainly, no personal pretenses towards supposedly having any "higher perspective" myself, I should note. 🙄

Seatacus: Good Lewis stuff = "Humans are amphibians - half spirit and half animal. As spirits they belong to the eternal world, but as animals they inhabit time." If you haven't already?..I'd suggest "The Screwtape Letters" for an afternoon's worth of reading grins. I love C.S. Lewis's theological works..especially when he's angling towards the comical 😉

 

[Cosworth]

"I have 70 +/- years and that's all I have." Don't even fantasize that even said 70+ is anything that's "under warranty" in any way, shape or form.
"The concept of a finite existence does not scare me." Well and good sir/ma'am...the "concept" isn't what one feels or frets over, whenever any "Oh Sh-t!!..This is IT!!/Game OVER!!" moments come up....and by the Grace of God..or fate, or merely whimsical chance as you will....passes without your immediate extinction....trust me on at least that.

I had heart failure and was robbed at gun point. Did not believe in god then and I still do not believe.

I would not trust you if you tld me the world was round and the sun was hot.

 

[American Air Surf]

I had heart failure and was robbed at gun point. Did not believe in god then and I still do not believe.

I would not trust you if you tld me the world was round and the sun was hot.

Read to Book of Jobe---. God even gave the NAZI's the freedom to choose, and wipe out millions of jews. It's people's individual choices, that either make this world better, or a living hell. The key to all this is "Man's agency and right to choose". Satan, on the other hand, sought to take that "agency" away.

 

[Cosworth]

Believe in your fairy tale if you choose. Makes difference to me.

The Nazi's were rabid vile animals. Nothing more.

 

[EastUS]

The Nazi's were rabid vile animals. Nothing more.

WHAT!!?? "rabid, vile animals"!!?? Please don't tell me that you would have been so "politically incorrect" enough to have not found it appropriate to "respect their culture and religion"?...and naturally, "embrace their diversity"? Heck...I'll almost bet that shooting a copy of Mein Kampf wouldn't bother you.... Heavy Sigh...how sadly narrow-minded. 🙄

"I would not trust you if you told me the world was round and the sun was hot." No problem there..as the earth's actually not perfectly round..although, I am willing to go with sun being hot...but all must judge the thoughts of others based upon their own experience and perception. 😉

PS: I'm well pleased that you survived the cardiac issue and the robbery. This "being alive" thing's a good deal, imho 😉

 

[Veritas]

Nazism is a political movement, not a religion.

 

[Cosworth]

As I stated before. WWII was a different war, different cultures and different rules. They are not a valid comparison. Perhaps Viet Nam or Korea would be closer but even that is not very close. In Nam and Korea we were fighting a "military" which is not the case in the ME.

If the goal of the US is to alienate the very people whom we are trying to get to help us, then by all means continue as you suggest. Given that these folks do not operate from the same play book as our western culture, it would seem that some in the military understand that the battle plan must adapt.

Whether you agree/like/respect the Muslim culture that exists in the ME is not relevant. Either you kill every last one of them (not possible and I am relatively certain world opinion would not permit it) or you do your damnedest to get along with them even if you have to eat crow along the way. IMO, if we fail to build some sort of relationship with the people who may be willing to help the US, then things will never change and the US will never be able to pull the troops out.

 

[Veritas]

Read to Book of Jobe---. God even gave the NAZI's the freedom to choose, and wipe out millions of jews. It's people's individual choices, that either make this world better, or a living hell. The key to all this is "Man's agency and right to choose". Satan, on the other hand, sought to take that "agency" away.

Pastor John Hagee disagrees with you:

"Then God sent a hunter. A hunter is someone with a gun and he forces you. Hitler was a hunter. And the Bible says - Jeremiah writing ? 'They shall hunt them from every mountain and from every hill and from the holes of the rocks,' meaning there's no place to hide. And that might be offensive to some people but don't let your heart be offended. I didn't write it, Jeremiah wrote it. It was the truth and it is the truth. How did it happen? Because God allowed it to happen. Why did it happen? Because God said my top priority for the Jewish people is to get them to come back to the land of Israel."

 

[EastUS]

Nazism is a political movement, not a religion.

Ummm...sure Let's see now; Nazism was based on a fantasy of racial superiority and group "purity", and within that fantasy..a contained assumption that their destiny, and duty, was to rule the world...dominating and enslaving all those "less worthy" FundaMENTAList Islam..."clearly" a "respectable religion"..is based on a fantasy that some 8th century nomad spoke directly to "God"...ascribes "worth" only to it's members, and assumes that their destiny, and duty...is to rule the world, dominating and enslaving all those less "faithful". Yep...I clearly see the "differerence" = Hitler was, in essence ..the "Aryan God" of the Third Reich..while, in the other case..the belief structure's based on a long-dead person. Hmmm...So...it all just comes down to whether the lunatic-in-charge is currently living? If he's dead...it's an issue of "religion"? ..and worthy of special respect?....I'm just not too sure about what actually, and clearly defines "religious" zealotry...as being functionally different, in ANY actual way...from any other group hysteria, or just plain, clinical insanity. Help me out with this with specifics please: Why's shooting a Koran "bad"..while shooting Mein Kampf would be perfectly fine? Seems like two sides of the very same coin to me. Both would "deeply offend" different sets of extremely passionate people..(although I understand that Hitler's actually quite popular among many of the "faithfull"..heck..he was even "worthy" of an portrait of himself within one of Saddam's palaces.) The Iranian 'leadership" denies even the occurance of the Holocaust as well. The vocal muslim world's apparently very enthusiastic about the idea of obliterating jews and Israel....

Hmmm..perhaps we'd better also order our troops to avoid "offending" any muslims, and their deep spiirtuallity, by ever shooting any copy of Mein Kampf...now that I think on it a bit :blink: 🙄 We must always "respect their beliefs" after all 😉

 

[Cosworth]

The concept is called perception. Perception is reality.

Nazism is not thought of/perceived as a religion. Islam is thought of/perceived as a religion. OK to desecrate/kill/mutilate one but not the other.

It does not matter that you disagre with one and not the other or disagree with both or neither. This is the way the world operates.

Also, WWII was called a world war for a reason, damn near the entire world was involved in it. Te was Italy, Japan and Germany on one side and everyone else was on the other side. Were it the same in this little conflict, shooting the Koran might be acceptable behavior.

I have yet to see anyone (other than you) refer to Hitler as an Aryan God but but what ever floats your boat. Religion has a fairly narrow scope. Paraphrasing Justice Stewart, I may not know how to define Religion, but I know it when I see it. Christianity is a religion, so is Islam, Hindu and I am sure quite a few others. Nazism, KKK, skinheads .. etc are not. Cults ... works for me. Zealots yes, religious zealots ... no. And I do not think the lunatic in charge has to be dead. IIRC the Dali Lama is a god incarnated or something like that.

I am not sure why this is so difficult to understand. This has nothing to do with right or wrong. This is simply about trying to get the job done with as little resistance as possible. When my mom was alive she was very stubborn. Once she had something in her mind it was virtually impossible to sway her. Whether she was right or wrong was not the issue. Having a peaceful house hold was. If she thought her way was best and no one was going to die or get hurt in the process, her way was fine with all of us. Arguing was not going to benefit anyone. Shooting a Koran is not going to help anyone. Desecrating their religion is not going to help anyone.

If you give a rats ass about the safety and well being of the troops, then you damn well better play along. Will the killing stop? Of course not? That won't stop till our troops are out. Well, at least our troops won;t get killed any more, they will just kill each other as they have for centuries. Will there be one less thing for them to be pissed off at our troops for? Yes.

I believe I read that the definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over but expect a different result. Draw cartoon of Mohamed = uprising and pissed of fanatical Muslims. Shoot Koran and write graffiti in Koran = pissed off fanatical Muslims. Do you see a trend appearing? I do.

And back to the flag issue. Go ahead and take a US flag down to the military base of your choosing. Go to the quad and burn it during reveille. Let me know if the troops defend your right to do something that right now is still protected by the US Const or i they kick your a$$ clear across town. How is that different than what the Muslims are doing. As far as I am concerned, both sentiments are just as stupid and irrational but it is what it is. I would no more burn a flag in the quad than I would shoot a Koran in a mosque.

 

[Veritas]

...FundaMENTAList Islam..."clearly" a "respectable religion"..is based on a fantasy that some 8th century nomad spoke directly to "God"...ascribes "worth" only to it's members, and assumes that their destiny, and duty...is to rule the world, dominating and enslaving all those less "faithful".

Just how is that different from Christianity which is based on the premise that God had a son some two thousand years ago? Lest we forget all the Crusades, Inquisitions and pogroms which were carried out in the name of the church in order to force the non-believers to convert.

 

[EastUS]

QUOTE (EastUS @ May 25 2008, 08:51 PM)
...FundaMENTAList Islam..."clearly" a "respectable religion"..is based on a fantasy that some 8th century nomad spoke directly to "God"...ascribes "worth" only to it's members, and assumes that their destiny, and duty...is to rule the world, dominating and enslaving all those less "faithful".

Just how is that different from Christianity which is based on the premise that God had a son some two thousand years ago? Lest we forget all the Crusades, Inquisitions and pogroms which were carried out in the name of the church in order to force the non-believers to convert.

"Just how is that different from Christianity which is based on the premise that God had a son some two thousand years ago?" It isn't. I consider ALL "organized religion" to be essentially insane.....period. As to "how is that different"? = Oh gee...I don't know...let me think...ah yes..perhaps the fact that the murderous, fully insane, "let's conquer the world" islamic BS's on-going..even as we speak? If the Inquisition reared up again..I'd be as vehemently opposed to that flavor of murderous insanity as well..and would think it fully reasonable, and actually just plain common sense, to destroy the sorts as would perform those historical horrors as well. Rabid dogs make poor pets in any house, at any time.

 

[American Air Surf]

Just how is that different from Christianity which is based on the premise that God had a son some two thousand years ago? Lest we forget all the Crusades, Inquisitions and pogroms which were carried out in the name of the church in order to force the non-believers to convert.

Responding to the Crusades/Inquisitons:

ACTS 20: 29,30
" For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. (30) Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them"

Nothing(s) changed since Paul, or Christ, (departing), and it continues on to this very day.