Awa Alpa Special Mec Hotline - September 12, 2005

[USA320Pilot]

Special MEC Hotline - September 12, 2005

From: JR Baker, AWA MEC Chairman
To: All AWA Pilots

During today's Special MEC Meeting, your MEC voted in favor of accepting a draft of the final Transition Agreement that protects the flying and aircraft of our pilots and those at US Airways during the operational integration of the two airlines. The final document is to be presented to the AWA MEC during Friday's meeting.

The Transition Agreement provides that the pilots at America West and US Airways will remain separate and covered by our own individual collective bargaining agreements (CBAs) until the operations are merged, which entails an integrated seniority list and negotiation of a single CBA.

Additional highlights of the agreement include:

- preservation of EMB 190 flying for mainline pilots;
- profit sharing program for both pilot groups;
- terms for company acceptance of the merged seniority list;
- terms and methods for negotiating a single contract;
- preservation of the AWA amendable and contract opener dates;
- terms for hiring furloughed US Airways pilots at America West Airlines;
- terms for protecting pilots during training to the new FAA certificate;
- $300,000 for each pilot group to reduce pilot contributions to merger-related expenses;
- additional FPL for the AWA MEC to harmonize with the AAA MEC; and
- language to ensure that single contract talks start within 60-90 days.

While we are disappointed that we did not address specific pay harmonization and "no furlough" protections in this agreement, there are several non-economic issues that we were successful in achieving. And we will tenaciously pursue the open economic and benefits issues when we enter into talks to merge the two agreements. This Transition Agreement will serve as a foundation as we work toward achieving those goals.

In closing, I would like to take this opportunity to thank the members of your Negotiating Committee who tirelessly worked to bring an acceptable agreement to your MEC. They set forth to protect the careers of each and every one of us and will continue to do so as we move forward to combining our pilot groups.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[a320av8r]

Thanks for the info.
Maybe our MEC can let us know something?

 

[autofixer]

No furlough protection...that is disturbing in light of the FAA POI saying we are going to furlough 300 more pilots. Does he really have the inside scoop, who knows?

 

[SoldWholeSale]

However, at the expense of 322 Embraer 170 Division MDA pilots, the MEC was able to preserve future Embraer flying for the mainline...... :down:

 

[a320av8r]

However, at the expense of 322 Embraer 170 Division MDA pilots, the MEC was able to preserve future Embraer flying for the mainline......    :down:

[post="299818"][/post]​

I would expect that the E190 flying will recall furloughed pilots to fly them.
Besides- still nothing from the U MEC regarding this TA.
I suspect it will be shot down by the Roll Call group just because they can.

 

[SoldWholeSale]

I would expect that the E190 flying will recall furloughed pilots to fly them.
Besides- still nothing from the U MEC regarding this TA.
I suspect it will be shot down by the Roll Call group just because they can.

[post="299878"][/post]​

So in the process furlough active dues paying AAA pilots currently flying the Embraer 170??

The Embraer 170 pilots were called from the APL in order of seniority, offered a chance to accept or pass. All APL pilots were aware that: 1) the ERJ-170 was operating on the USAirways certificate 2) those pilots would wear USAirways brass 3) those pilots would pay AAA dues from the first day of class 4) those pilots would have the ability to reserve the jumseat 5) have the ability to run for and hold MEC/LEC office while flying the E-170 6) use the "USAir" call sign when flying 7) could not retire from mainline and also fly MDA/E-170 because they are one and the same

Its pretty obvious that the MDA pilots are already active AAA and were called in order of seniority and offered benifits in accordance with longevity established by their group date of hire.

The MEC doesn't want to furlough those pilots to make way for a more orderly recall. They want to furlough the MDA pilots to be rid of the disgusting Eagle contract they allowed the Embraer fleet to be covered under. The want MDA to go away so they can have new aircraft deliveries scheduled to contribute to "career expectation" under ALPA merger policy, and last, they need the Captain positions the aircraft would bring or the MEC Chairman would have to be merged as an FO....

Nothing personal a320av8r, just struck a cord.

ALL OR NONE!

PS. Watch for a picket sign near you, read the papers in the next couple of weeks, and stay tuned for a little group to make a big statement.

 

[Furloughedagain]

I'm really impressed with the unity and organization that the MidAtlantic group has displayed! I hope that the organizers there will, at some point following their "recall", run for office at the mainline MEC.

Would be nice to see someone in a position of leadership who remembers that ALPA's Job #1 is JOBS.

 

[a320av8r]

So in the process furlough active dues paying AAA pilots currently flying the Embraer 170??

The Embraer 170 pilots were called from the APL in order of seniority, offered a chance to accept or pass. All APL pilots were aware that: 1) the ERJ-170 was operating on the USAirways certificate 2) those pilots would wear USAirways brass 3) those pilots would pay AAA dues from the first day of class 4) those pilots would have the ability to reserve the jumseat 5) have the ability to run for and hold MEC/LEC office while flying the E-170 6) use the "USAir" call sign when flying 7) could not retire from mainline and also fly MDA/E-170 because they are one and the same

Its pretty obvious that the MDA pilots are already active AAA and were called in order of seniority and offered benifits in accordance with longevity established by their group date of hire.

The MEC doesn't want to furlough those pilots to make way for a more orderly recall. They want to furlough the MDA pilots to be rid of the disgusting Eagle contract they allowed the Embraer fleet to be covered under. The want MDA to go away so they can have new aircraft deliveries scheduled to contribute to "career expectation" under ALPA merger policy, and last, they need the Captain positions the aircraft would bring or the MEC Chairman would have to be merged as an FO....

Nothing personal a320av8r, just struck a cord.

ALL OR NONE!

PS. Watch for a picket sign near you, read the papers in the next couple of weeks, and stay tuned for a little group to make a big statement.

[post="299893"][/post]​

Nothing personal taken.
I have a lot of friends at MDA and am watching closely.
It is a raw deal and you guys are being screwed again.
I was trying to find something positive, didn't mean to offend you.
Good luck and God bless you all.

 

[exB717Flyer]

No furlough protection...

There is no such thing as furlough protection anymore. If the company needs to they'll furlough.

 

[aquagreen73s]

Soldwholesale,

I'm a pilot who has deliberately divorced myself from the situation and refuse to get worked up about the integration becuase whatever we say as pilots is meaningless. The process is a very political process and arbitration willl grind along to put the government stamp on whatever ALPO comes up with. That said, I am very interested in what happened to you mainline pilots now caught in the MDA debacle. Can you explain your post point by point, giving me whatever backgroud you'd need to explain it to somebody who knows nothing of the situation:

(1) "The MEC doesn't want to furlough those pilots to make way for a more orderly recall."
Explain this further. Did you mean to say they would like to furlough the MDA pilots because then the furlough list would look like a typical furlough list with pilots below seniority number XXX are furloughed?

(2) "They want to furlough the MDA pilots to be rid of the disgusting Eagle contract they allowed the Embraer fleet to be covered under."
Please explain further. What's the advantage to the MEC (personally, of course) for them to do this? I'm not familiar with your particular MEC members. MDA was a great idea (considering the circumstances) but I think what the current MEC has allowed to happen is instead of a one step outcourcing of mainline jets to a puddle jumper, the U MEC participated in nothing more than a straw transaction whereby a new mainline airplane comes onto the property under the guise it will be flown by mainline pilots but considered separate. THen, let the company "sells" the operation and ALPO does not insist that the same mainline pilots fly them. Rather, let the jobs go to the bottom of the barrel in terms of the career ladder. If this is what it has come to, why did ALPO even bother in the first place?

(3) "The want MDA to go away so they can have new aircraft deliveries scheduled to contribute to "career expectation" under ALPA merger policy,"
I'm assuming you mean wiping the little jets off the balance sheet so the big, shiny new A330s better weight the "career expectations" figure?


(4) "and last, they need the Captain positions the aircraft would bring or the MEC Chairman would have to be merged as an FO...."
Does this relate to (2)? He must be an '88 DOH.

Thanks.

 

[aquagreen73s]

>>Would be nice to see someone in a position of leadership who remembers that ALPA's Job #1 is JOBS.<<


Duane is concerned about JOBS...at Herndon.

 

[SoldWholeSale]

Aquagreen73s,

I've tried to answer your questions, but there is much more to this than I have time for tonight. Thanks for your interest in the matter and I look forward to meeting you in a breakroom one day.


I'm a pilot who has deliberately divorced myself from the situation and refuse to get worked up about the integration becuase whatever we say as pilots is meaningless. The process is a very political process and arbitration willl grind along to put the government stamp on whatever ALPO comes up with. That said, I am very interested in what happened to you mainline pilots now caught in the MDA debacle. Can you explain your post point by point, giving me whatever backgroud you'd need to explain it to somebody who knows nothing of the situation:
Answer: You are a wise and lucky man to be able to just let it go like that.... I wish I could do the same. I'll probably die at age 60 +1 from a stroke.....
(1) "The MEC doesn't want to furlough those pilots to make way for a more orderly recall."
Explain this further. Did you mean to say they would like to furlough the MDA pilots because then the furlough list would look like a typical furlough list with pilots below seniority number XXX are furloughed?
Answer: You are correct. MidAtlantic was supposed to be its own airline with the now defunct "Potomac Airlines" operating certificate. Due to the delivery of the aircraft being pushed back due to certification issues, time became too tight to start a separate carrier. Thus management with the blessing of the union (from here in referred to as ALPO), brought the Embraer 170 on to the USAirways operating certificate and in the eye's of the FAA as an additional fleet type. However, the pilots were brought back from the APL (affected pilots list ie. furloughed pilots) if they accepted, in seniority order, with vacation and travel in accordance with their USAirways date of hire. However, the same pilots were brought back on property, under the American Eagle pilots working agreement (which after two years, still has not been finished or made available to the crews), at first year pay. The reason the MEC would like to have these pilots furloughed, is that many "out of seniority" pilots accepted positions here because it was NOT an official recall. They were still advertising MDA as separate even though the aircraft are owned and operated by USAirways, the manuals are USAirways, the insurance and payroll is USAirways, the call sign is USAirways, and the list goes on and on for at least 50 documented items. Sorry about the long answers, but is something beyond complicated and purposely convoluted by both mgmnt and ALPO.
(2) "They want to furlough the MDA pilots to be rid of the disgusting Eagle contract they allowed the Embraer fleet to be covered under."
Please explain further. What's the advantage to the MEC (personally, of course) for them to do this? I'm not familiar with your particular MEC members. MDA was a great idea (considering the circumstances) but I think what the current MEC has allowed to happen is instead of a one step outcourcing of mainline jets to a puddle jumper, the U MEC participated in nothing more than a straw transaction whereby a new mainline airplane comes onto the property under the guise it will be flown by mainline pilots but considered separate. THen, let the company "sells" the operation and ALPO does not insist that the same mainline pilots fly them. Rather, let the jobs go to the bottom of the barrel in terms of the career ladder. If this is what it has come to, why did ALPO even bother in the first place?
Answer: You hit the nail on the head..... Our ALPO MEC has the foresight of a 4th grader and the conscience of a rapist.... They just never thought it would come back to haunt them, and in the least it would turn into a bargaining tool to save their own butts at some point. The U MEC has never had any interest in quality of life or job protection issues for the junior pilot. They are a grown up version of the Mesa MEC.
(3) "The want MDA to go away so they can have new aircraft deliveries scheduled to contribute to "career expectation" under ALPA merger policy,"
I'm assuming you mean wiping the little jets off the balance sheet so the big, shiny new A330s better weight the "career expectations" figure?
Answer: No, not really. They are all bound up trying to figure out how to protect their 20 big jets.... But again, that's the top 5% of the seniority list as is usually the case. The reason they want MDA gone, and the Eagle contract with us is different. ALPA merger policy is based in career expectation and # of left/right seats a carrier brings to the table. If they make the future deliveries of the Embraer go to mainline (which they claim MDA is not even though we are voting, dues paying, AAA members), they will then have scheduled aircraft deliveries which go towards career expectation, and additional left seat positions. Both would be under the AAA contract, which pays 40% better than the Eagle rag they have MDA operating under.
(4) "and last, they need the Captain positions the aircraft would bring or the MEC Chairman would have to be merged as an FO...."
Does this relate to (2)? He must be an '88 DOH.
Answer: I have no idea when he was hired. The most junior pilot flying "mainline" was hired in 1988, I have no idea when the most junior Captain was hired. I do know that the average USAir pilot is 54.5 years old, and the average Captain is 56. No matter what happens, 50% of the USAirways pilots are outa here within 5 years.....

Thanks.

There of coarse is much, much more to it and you probably aren't any more interested in hearing about it all just now than I am in writing it. I will tell you to watch the papers in the next couple of weeks. The MDA pilots and possibly F/A's will be picketing in both DCA and PHL - informational only. There will be a suit filed which will raise everyone's eyebrows very soon.....

Your MEC from all appearances is a much wiser and more realistic group who understands their duties as representatives of the line pilot. I hope that much like USAir's management, the AAA MEC is mostly put out to pasture to make room for better stock.

Have a good night,

SH

 

[aquagreen73s]

SH, thanks for the reply. I'm still not quite clear on point number 3:

"The reason they want MDA gone, and the Eagle contract with us is different. ALPA merger policy is based in career expectation and # of left/right seats a carrier brings to the table. If they make the future deliveries of the Embraer go to mainline (which they claim MDA is not even though we are voting, dues paying, AAA members), they will then have scheduled aircraft deliveries which go towards career expectation, and additional left seat positions. Both would be under the AAA contract, which pays 40% better than the Eagle rag they have MDA operating under."

Ok...is the idea to let MDA go away and send the 30(?) EMB170s to republic, and then say that's all for republic. Then, the AAA ALPO mec will turn around and declare that the remaining EMB jets to be delivered will be counted towards the AAA left seat/right seat numbers for integration purposes?

 

[Light Years]

Right... let's see how this works out.

So the junior pilots and F/As who had to fly the EJets under a fictional contract under a fictional airline within an airline will be screwed, while new EJets will come to the mainline, likely as a 737 replacement at fiull mainline wages.

Mgmt will happily have mainline employees flying the same EXACT plane with a couple more rows while a contracted "Express" carrier flies the version with a few less rows for peanuts. Hmmmm.... I DOUBT it. If the scope-giveaway idiots allowed A319s to be flown at outside express carriers for nothing, but the A320 had to remain at mainline with full mainline contracts, how many A320s do you think would be flying?

The planes can not be seperated. They are the same type. You have, for the first time, direct instead of indirect replacement workers on the property. There are three Republic aircraft flying while mainline people are furloughed from the exact same aircraft.

Let's not forget that in all of it's genius ALPA negotiated that E190s could indeed be flown at an "affiliate Express carrier" (meaning outsourced) if Airways were to order them and become unable to take them. Well we all know Airways likes to order planes and not take delivery of them... ask Airbus, Embraer, and Bombardier. If CCY called me and ordered two pizzas I'd bring them a couple slices and demand payment for the rest.

The next couple of weeks should be interesting from what I hear in regards to MAA... every employee at US Airways, and probably a lot of the public, will know the scoop. The lawsuits sound very interesting and have a huge chance of being successful. If they are they could set quite a precedent in the industry.

If they aren't, a really awful precedent is being set for flight crews at every airline in the nation. I think this MAA thing was a test of how far they could push the outsourcing of crews. Thankfully it's a bunch that has organized themselves well, but hopefully the rest of the airline will take a concern in thier own future and join the fight as well.

 

[SoldWholeSale]

Pretty close Aquagreen, they want to allow all of the Embraer 170's to be operated at Republic which would allow the 25 we have now, and another 20ish to be flown outside of the combined mainline fleet. Then, with MDA/Employees/ERJ-170's out of the picture and thus any mention of the Eagle tag-along contract and express pay rates, it will make it easier to just bring the Embraer 190 on property under AAA established rates of pay and as a 737 replacement. We have 85 orders, and 85 options for the 170/175, and all are convertible to 190/195. The company and ALPO plan to convert the future orders to the 190, which is a 737-200 size airplane. The Embraer 170/190 family is a common type much like the Airbus.

Then, as you said, the future orders for the aircraft we flying the 170 are already trained in would be deflected to the "ALPO mainline" ie not MDA as additional airframes.

The contention is, that ALPO says they only represent MDA/Embraer 170 division as "Class and Craft". However for that to have been the case, it would have to have been requested by the MDA pilots, and approved by the AAA MEC. Neither happened. We were told by the MEC Chairman and Vice Chairman in a meeting at the beginning, that we were part of mainline, much like MetroJet. MDA pilots hold MEC/LEC offices, and have no division from mainline except in rates of pay and work rules (which are less than the Mesa CRJ-700/-900). Much like the CRJ-700/-900, the Embraer 170/190 is a common type and more than 80% common in parts and maintenance. You know how that works with the camels nose under the tent.... We give away the 170's, something else happens and before you know it the 190's are being flown under contract by Mesa/Chataque/Republic/Shuttle America/Sky West/TransStates or who ever else starts a "fee-for-departure" carrier.

Hope this helps. I would like for the AWA MEC to understand exactly what is happening with the Embraer 170 fleet and crews, it will soon be their problem as well. I would think the additional 25 (28 if we get our three airframes back from Republic) aircraft and supporting 330+ pilots would go a long way towards simplifying the seniority list integration in regard to furloughed USAir pilots. Of the 1800 on furlough, only 700 are projected to return when called for many reasons including better jobs, retirement, loss of medical, or change in career. Of those 700, 175 already work flying the Embraer 170. The remaining 500ish could be brought back due to additional crew requirements and retirements within 12 months.

Best to you all and thanks for the interest.

SH