Alpa Merger Seniority Integration

[USA320Pilot]

Today the ALPA Merger Committee provided the MEC with a 10-minute review of their progress. The MEC has requested ALPA National establish a Merger Seniority Integration Policy Initiation Date (PID), which could be decided when the ALPA Executive Council meets on October 25 and 26. If one of the two MEC chairman are not onboard then the Executive Council can independently make the decision.

At this point, America West MEC chairman JR Baker has not agreed to support the PID. The two Merger Committees have met a number of times and the process is moving along, although slowly.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[A320 Driver]

Why don't we wait a little longer on the PID so all the airplanes that are leaving the property are gone. That way our career expectations will be sufficiently lowered to a point that will make everyone happy.


A320 Driver :down:

 

[traderjake]

What were our career expectations last December?............................................. Zero.

They are infinitely higher today.

 

[Bud8EE]

What were our career expectations last December?............................................. Zero.

They are infinitely higher today.

[post="311812"][/post]​

6 years ago New Hires at UAL were going to be 767 Captains today. New Hires at NWAC, Delta, CAL and AA were probably similar. In 1987, New hires at US and PI were going to be Captains in 2 or 3. Bottom line there are no career expectations for anyone, and a smart arbitrator and merger comittee will recognize that. It boils down to age and longevity and those components are the ones that intergration should be dertermined by. If anyone expected something when they got hired they were exercising irrational exuberance and if they think they have it now, it's the same old pilot greed making an argument to support their personal cause and throwing any sense of fraternity or far-sightedness out the window because, "I want mine now."

 

[traderjake]

Bottom line there are no career expectations for anyone, and a smart arbitrator and merger comittee will recognize that. It boils down to age and longevity and those components are the ones that intergration should be dertermined by.

[post="311847"][/post]​

So because we're old and worked for a poorly run stagnant company we deserve go to the top of the list.

What a ridiculous argument.

 

[N924PS]

So because we're old and worked for a poorly run stagnant company we deserve go to the top of the list.

What a ridiculous argument.

[post="311858"][/post]​

Date of Hire is Unity and Unity is Date of Hire.

And yes we do deserve to go to the top of the list. We paid for it with our pensions, work rules, vacation, sick leave, quality of life.

The Parker/Lakefield dream would never have been a possible without the sacrifices of the USAirways employees.

We bring lots of flying and lots of retirements to the merger. Who should benefit from the USAirways atrrition? Certainly the USAirways pilots, including the furloughees.

 

[traderjake]

Date of Hire is Unity and Unity is Date of Hire.

[post="311860"][/post]​

Tell that to the Piemont Captain who's job was given to a First Officer who could not hold Captain at USAir or PSA.

That why our union is such a unified and effective group...............................................................no
.

 

[N924PS]

Tell that to the Piemont Captain who's job was given to a First Officer who could not hold Captain at USAir or PSA.

That why our union is such a unified group.................................................................
............not.

[post="311863"][/post]​

I can guess which group you are from.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

I can guess which group you are from.

[post="311865"][/post]​

Well I never had any of that stuff you gave up, and you want my captain seat to make up for it? I don't think so.

 

[N924PS]

Well I never had any of that stuff you gave up, and you want my captain seat to make up for it?  I don't think so.

[post="311873"][/post]​

What makes it "your" seat? Are you already a Captain?

There are plenty of USairways F/o's with 18 years on the property that would tell you any new Captain vacancies opened by attrition of a USAirways pilot should be theirs.

 

[Bud8EE]

So because we're old and worked for a poorly run stagnant company we deserve go to the top of the list.

What a ridiculous argument.

[post="311858"][/post]​

So who benifits from the 2000 retirement attrition from the U group over the next decade? The 18 Year US Pilot or the 1 year AWA pilot. DOH they bothe due. Asuming everyone gets hired at 25-35 and most due, the US pilot gets to enjoy the attrition for 10 years because he is 50 and then the AWA 1 year piot foes for another 15-20 beyond that because he is 30-35. That works comparing any demographic whether it be comparing 18 years of longevity to 1, 15 to 5, or 12. 8. There arlways a few exceptions as some are hired at 23 and some at 50. Both will enjoy it DOH, sounds pretty fair. Slot a younger person in front of an older one with more longevity and the attrition and advancement is only enjoyed by the younger slotted pilot as the older one is now perpetually blocked by his age even though he enjoys 15+ years more longevity in some cases. Sounds like a windfall. Both airlines needed the merger, the 2 billion in new equity that will sustain both companies in the current environment came because of the merger. The routes and pilot positions that either group will have access to are because of the merger of two companies. I am sorry of someone told you that you would be a captain in 2 years and it didn't work out but sour grapes shouldn't make you selfish, greedy, or short sightedness when common sense and fairness dictate the normal flow of longevity and retiermnet age are the only constants in this business.

 

[Bud8EE]

Tell that to the Piemont Captain who's job was given to a First Officer who could not hold Captain at USAir or PSA.

That why our union is such a unified and effective group...............................................................no
.

[post="311863"][/post]​

If someone believes what they are told in Indoc and creates a "career expectation" or a sense of entitlement to a position that they don't hold that is somewhere nebuously out in the future their attitude is why there isn't unity. No one is guaranteed anything, especially in this business. We are all held hostage to management decisions, economic cycles, fuel prices, and comptetite environment. Employees have no say in mergers, it us purely a corporate decision in a competitve market. If there were ever a sense of any stability it ought to come through principles created by the union and/or its membership. DOH is a constant that respects longevity and is the only means for determining position on the individual lists of two carriers and the only reason it isn't respected when two lists are combined is because of personal self interest. It fairly compensates for age and longevity and whether things happen faster or slower the normal progession is maintained. The size of companies, the financial state of the companies, who has widebodies and who doesn't are irrelevant because as the list retires from the top, people move up and no one is disadvantaged by their age because with more years of service they were placed behind someone younger with less.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

What makes it "your" seat? Are you already a Captain?

There are plenty of USairways F/o's with 18 years on the property that would tell you any new Captain vacancies opened by attrition of a USAirways pilot should be theirs.

[post="311874"][/post]​

Yes I am a captain, a junior one. I don't want to move up in the world at anyones expense, but at the same time I don't want to lose my captain seat. I'm a junior 37 captain now and thats all I want to be after this is said and done. I don't care if I ever fly international or a widebody, I could retire as a 37 captain in Phx and be perfectly happy. Maybe I'm mis reading things but sometimes I get the impression that AAA guys don't think i deserve that captain seat and want to displace me because of their hire dates. Straight DOH is a staple job, yet it seems to me alot of AAA guys are dolling it up as "only fair." Once again, thats only my impression and I'll be the first to admit I could be wrong.

 

[N924PS]

Bud8EE,

Two excellent posts that summarize what I believe to be the position the USAirways Merger Committee and its attorney, Dan Katz should take.

 

[N924PS]

Yes i am a captain, a junior one. I don't want to move up in the world at anyones expense, but at the same time I don't want to lose my captain seat. I'm a junior 37 captain now and thats all i want to be after this is said and done. I don't care if I ever fly international or a widebody, I could retire as a 37 captain in Phx and be perfectly happy. Maybe i'm mis reading things but sometimes i get the impression that AAA guys don't think i deserve that and want to displace me because of their hire dates. Straight DOH is a staple job, yet it seems to me alot of AAA guys are dolling it up as "only" fair. Once again, thats only my impression, I don't want to seem as if I am unfairly labeling people.

[post="311893"][/post]​

I don't believe any USAirways pilot expects wants you to be displaced at all.

I'm not sure what your age/seniority is but at some point, if you are younger, that yet to be built Airbus 350 that may pay considerably more a few years down the road may become ever more attractive to you.

It is probable that there will not be a negotiated seniority list integration. An arbitrator will most likely make the final determination. As far as I am concerned, the sooner the better. We will know more after the ALPA BOD meeting later this month when a merger Policy Initiation Date may be established.