Alpa Obtains A Ta

[PITbull]

United asked for, and obtained 1113e relief in the form of a 13% pay cut imposed upon UAL IAM members.

It is not a "pick and choose", it is a motion made and then approved or denied. If you reference the Filing, all of those cases cited as precedents for this particular motion could also be considered relevent to this situation. What is being considered here falls under federal bankruptcy code, not the RLA... So it is not just "Airline Industry" specific.

[post="186744"][/post]​

13% is NOT 23%. And at United, IAM did not open their contracts for any concessions. In contrast, this is U employees concession #3.

What you are implying above is that if U made a 1113e motion for 90% wage reduction, there is a big possiblity that the judge (because of some precedent you are citing) could be approved...

Fat chance U will ever get 23% from group. Morale is shattered here. There is no turn around for the company with morale like this.

 

[Borescope]

Bore,
Guess you're not flight crew. 16hrs. or less means you overnight on or close to the airport. Not a big deal to most pilots, but the f/a's will probably raise hell. No chance to shop at malls, etc. "Me Too" is still with us.

[post="186573"][/post]​

Man, what a bummer. You have to go shopping with them too :down:

 

[Rico]

What is your problem PB...?

You asked for an example, I gave you an example.

You do not like being shown an example, so you point out something dumb like "13% is not 23%" (no duh, but it WAS a successful 1113e motion, and I am sure the IAM members did not like giving up 13% either way). Then you go and ask some irrelevant question like "What if they ask for 90%, will the judge auto-give it to em"

Wha...? Where did you come up with that jewel of a comeback :blink: I never said anything like that girl... I guess you are at a loss for something to counter with, so you make stuff up. :wacko:

Look, do not get mad at me for giving you the facts you asked for Do not ask the question if you do not want to hear the answer.



Oh, and another thing,

"Fat Chance", please... :down:

As I have pointed out before, AFA has a fatal weakness in their argument that they cannot work for 23% less.

They already work for less than that at MidAtlantic. <_<

As soon as the judge hears that, it will be a slam dunk for the company. We both know there is abosolutly no difference between a AFA F/A that works at MDA or Mainline, other than senority. You are in the same union, and on the same list, you will have a real tough time convincing Judge Mitchell that you "cannot" handle what your own union expects your junior members to "handle" now.

I do not "Imply" anything, I just use common sense PB. If you could tone down your emotional response you might see things in a less outlandish manner.

Anyways, Good Luck. B)

 

[PITbull]

Rico.

Sorry Charlie Brown, on mainline, we do not fly 72 seat, small jets. The f/as at Mid Atlantic could either choose to go through training at MAA or stay on furlough.

I welcome the co. to offer OPEN furloughs for all seniority f/as with severance on mainline...they would have a mass exodus. AFA has proposed this.

Unhappy? TOO BAD!

 

[Rico]

Hahaha

OMG, that will be so funny when you try to get that one past a judge... HAHAHA.

Thanks for the laugh PB, whewww.

Ahhh, yeah, ummm, you see, Judge Mitchell is like most other "non-airline" folk. You might think you are high and mighty above the MDA F/A's, but that attitude will not impress any Judge (nor pass the smell test). Afterall..., Same job, same union, same list, SAME CERTIFICATE.

You might have been able to con someone into thinking the job is different if we were talking about an "actual" express carrier (rather than mainline pretending to be express), except the question arises how come you are trained on the E-170 then if it is soooooo different...?

Ok, Lets say you argue that contractully a "small 72 seat jet" is way different than "your ride"..., That the 72 seater like the E-170 could only be considered "Express-ish"

Then explain the F-28 (Gotcha).

Trust me, arrogance and elitism will not hold water against a common sense argument (during litigation in a court of law).

 

[PITbull]

The less we make, ha-ha man, the less you will make.

There is a big difference in WHAT YOU ELECT TO TAKE, AND WHAT IS IMPOSED.

No matter what the amount, these are temporary cuts. YOURS isn't.

 

[PITbull]

Oh, and one more thing.....

If the company liquidates...or the GE creditors don't think U is viable, there will be NO DELIVERY OF MAA A/C.

MAINLINE SUBSIDY FUELS MAA OPERATION.

Without labor concessions, YOU DON'T EXIST, AND YOU HAVE NO SAY OR A VOTE IN IT.

 

[Rico]

The less we make, ha-ha man, the less you will make.

There is a big difference in WHAT YOU ELECT TO TAKE, AND WHAT IS IMPOSED.

No matter what the amount, these are temporary cuts. YOURS isn't.

Wanna bet..?

Put it this way, as lean as times are now, and as difficult as they may be, over time, it will be the pilots that will regain the most leverage and be able to recover the most over time.

Growth also favors our paychecks a lot more than it does your own. Growth is essential to our future, not just a nice goal. And I am not talking just about MDA growth, I am talking about mainline.

You are right, we have a choice as a union if we wish to accept the deal reached, or take further chances with whatever might be imposed. But we will have a choice.

You...? You are counting on your lawyers to plead for mercy, if you are unable to negotiate a deal. Not much choice involved there :unsure:

And THAT is a "big difference" PB

 

[Bohica]

One day after this TA gets ratified the Shuttle gets sold and NO pilots go with it.

Bohica

 

[PITbull]

Yea, I want to bet. If one labor group doesn't ratify and the co. proposes an abrogation, and the judge just happens to agree...guess what happens next??

There will be no delivery of MAA a/c unless there our agreements.

F/as can get a job quicker to replace their income than YOU.

Must be tuff on you waiting for mainline pilots to subsidize your butt to keep you in a seat.

And if they ratify; you'll still complain because of your unhappiness where you are.

Must be tuff being so desperate.


PS: BTW, right now, you don't have a choice OR a vote.

Oh, I forgot. You can always quit your MAA job

 

[Rico]

Yea, I want to bet. If one labor group doesn't ratify and the co. proposes an abrogation, and the judge just happens to agree...guess what happens next??

I dunno, you gonna pull those lime green "Chaos" shirts outta the closet...?

As I have posted before, unions are like corporations. They get no dues revenue from a failed airline, thus they will not strike if it places their entire membership out of a job. They will retreat to fight another day, but not strike, eh?

Plus National Unions like AFA can no more handle the thought of an actual CBA being abrogated (and the precedent being set) than you can admit you are ever wrong, eh?

Oh, and one more thing.....

If the company liquidates...or the GE creditors don't think U is viable, there will be NO DELIVERY OF MAA A/C.

MAINLINE SUBSIDY FUELS MAA OPERATION.

Without labor concessions, YOU DON'T EXIST, AND YOU HAVE NO SAY OR A VOTE IN IT.

Awww, now you are just being mean spirited, that's not nice PB

The prevailing wisdom is that someone will want the 22 Airways E-170's right away. Since the company has been packaged so as to be able to be "split off", chances are good that MDA will go as a intact entity IMO.

If not, there are only 200-ish pilots in the States right now that have any experience in what promises to be a very popular aircraft series. So although I am doing everything I can to see Airways survive and succeed. I will cope if Airways folds.

(Time at home with my family = cool) (Plus, a good carpenter is never without work nowadays)

Oh, and one more thing, I am a dues paying, full fledged member in good standing of Council 94 of the AAA ALPA. IF my MEC decides that this TA should be sent to the pilots for ratification, I have a vote.

Thanks for your concern.

Anyways, lets get back to the subject shall we...?

 

[SoldWholeSale]

PB,

MDA is not "subsidized by mainline", it is mainline. The MDA employees were just sold down the road at cut rates by senior union members like youself (those who live by the sword, often die by the sword). MDA is the same certificate as mainline, same gates, same furloughed employees, same call sign, and same flight attendants (maybe a little less bitter), and in the end the same chance of survival. GE does not finance the EMB, they only hold paper on 12 of the 85 options. The remaining aircraft are carried by the bank of brazil and deliveries can be taken while operating under chapt 11 if the company argues that the cost is offset by revenue.

Ignorance is a dangerous shield to hide behind.......

 

[N924PS]

One day after this TA gets ratified the Shuttle gets sold and NO pilots go with it.

Bohica

[post="186761"][/post]​

And probably a lot more fragmentation to follow. But that's OK. Cause ALPA helped them load the gun and the Giveaway Gang and their followers will pull the trigger. And ended their own careers and hundreds if not thousands more.

 

[Phoenix]

If ALPA votes for this, you have completed the tranformation of US Airways into an airline below the standard of TrashState, MESA, and Comair. And not only that, all profitable Mainline routes would be sold with the big planes. The new mainline would be 190s and below, at the new slave labor camp of airlines.

Absolutely vote no. You can live better off of selling pencils on the street corner.

Vote yes for this and you are lower than whale S%$t, and have less fortitude than a jellyfish.

Here are the highlights, according to my source.
-Pay cut = 18.25%
-DC plan contribution max 10%
-Pay cap adjustable to 95 hours
-Rolling cap for reserve pilots = 285 over 3 month period
-Deadhead is 50% P/NC
-Eliminate negative bank
-Fragmentation does not apply during ch 11 and 1 year after.
-Equity
-Profit sharing = 3.6% min.
-Min a/c - void during Ch 11 and out till 1 year after Ch 11 exit.
-Outstanding grievances - company agrees to discuss settlement.
-Training Relief
-No MDA displacement rights
-Expanded VLAs
-Eliminate domestic crew meals
-Limited ERIP for pilots 55 and older
-Sick bank max 60 hours
-Vacation - 15 or more years service = 21 days @ 3.45hr/day
-EMB 190s to MDA with a max of 60 a/c
PS. USA320pilot remember I told you when you guys caved on the E170 at MDA that they would get the 190????

[post="186597"][/post]​

 

[FM2436]

Sadly it looks like the TA is in trouble.

http://www.alpa.org/aaa/DesktopModules/Cod...?DocumentID=230