ALPA/USAPA Topic for week of 1/24 to 1/31

[767jetz]

Just wondering... what trick will you guys pull out of your sleeve if there is a vote and USAPA fails to oust ALPA? Will you then drop this "we are the majority" mantra and recognize that the majority prefer to follow though with ALPA's plan? Or will you then try another union and claim you still have a majority because the vote was actually tainted in some way? Will you demand a recount? IMO you will continue with your rhetoric even after the majority has spoken. Prove me wrong.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Just wondering... what trick will you guys pull out of your sleeve if there is a vote and USAPA fails to oust ALPA? Will you then drop this "we are the majority" mantra and recognize that the majority prefer to follow though with ALPA's plan? Or will you then try another union and claim you still have a majority because the vote was actually tainted in some way? Will you demand a recount? IMO you will continue with your rhetoric even after the majority has spoken. Prove me wrong.

We'll prove it with a vote. On the line you would be hard pressed to find an East pilot without a Gold and Yellow lanyard, a USAPA pin OR a lack of understanding regarding Allegheny/Mohawk being signed into law. Even the 517 pilots now understand that to keep what they would lose under ALPA merger policy if another merger occurs, it is in their best interests to be outside ALPA. We'll answer that with a vote. No tricks.

 

[nostradamus]

Just wondering... what trick will you guys pull out of your sleeve if there is a vote and USAPA fails to oust ALPA? Will you then drop this "we are the majority" mantra and recognize that the majority prefer to follow though with ALPA's plan? Or will you then try another union and claim you still have a majority because the vote was actually tainted in some way? Will you demand a recount? IMO you will continue with your rhetoric even after the majority has spoken. Prove me wrong.

You being a United pilot should understand that employees get very sensitive at the mere mention of the word merger, as evidenced by your United ALPA Unions previous actions and current threats. The Summer Of Hell type action your pilots used passengers as hostages during your tantrum was an example of how not to act.

Your current message put out recently at the mere mention of a merger this year makes one wonder what to expect from your United pilots in the near future. United Pilots to management, no rubber stamp letter.

The situation is very fluid, hopefully we will not overreact and use the consumers as fodder in our quest for fairness, as the United pilots have done and are currently threatning.

 

[end_of_alpa]

You being a United pilot should understand that employees get very sensitive at the mere mention of the word merger, as evidenced by your United ALPA Unions previous actions and current threats. The Summer Of Hell type action your pilots used passengers as hostages during your tantrum was an example of how not to act.

Your current message put out recently at the mere mention of a merger this year makes one wonder what to expect from your United pilots in the near future. United Pilots to management, no rubber stamp letter.

The situation is very fluid, hopefully we will not overreact and use the consumers as fodder in our quest for fairness, as the United pilots have done and are currently threatning.

Didn't know 767jetz was a United pilot. Very interesting INDEED!!

 

[700UW]

The summer of hell was not over a merger, it was over obtaining a new CBA, see they have solidarity and a backbone, something US pilots would not know about.

 

[end_of_alpa]

The summer of hell was not over a merger, it was over obtaining a new CBA, see they have solidarity and a backbone, something US pilots would not know about.

Thank you for you're "professional" insight. Something you have as well.....if you leave the soildarity and backbone out of it.

Look 700UW. You're an East pilot hater and would like to see this pilot group self destruct....something which, in fact, the opposite is happening. The only possible place you're kind can have a voice on ANYTHING is this forum. Bait all you want, you'll soon see.

I look forward to the day the election is complete. Then I can stick you're nose in all the "_____" you've been shoveling here.

We're going to vote and the card numbers support USAPA!!

 

[nostradamus]

The summer of hell was not over a merger, it was over obtaining a new CBA, see they have solidarity and a backbone, something US pilots would not know about.

I guess I wasted my time providing links so inquiring minds can do their own research. They can just read your one long sentence opinion and then go about their day fully informed by you.

I must warn them though, you belonged to a ground workers union that thought the way to deal with labor relations was to defacate in passenger bags, to show your displeasure with the progress of negotiations, in the early 1990.s.

 

[700UW]

That is a lie, M&R dont handle bags, and the ramp did not unionize till 1995.

Dont you have another picket line to cross?

 

[cactusboy53]

We'll prove it with a vote. On the line you would be hard pressed to find an East pilot without a Gold and Yellow lanyard, a USAPA pin OR a lack of understanding regarding Allegheny/Mohawk being signed into law. Even the 517 pilots now understand that to keep what they would lose under ALPA merger policy if another merger occurs, it is in their best interests to be outside ALPA. We'll answer that with a vote. No tricks.

End;
I met (well that's not exactly true) one of your brothers. Here's the story:

There we were. The captain and I were in line buying a nice tasty "5 Guys" breakfast sandwich for our 1028 departure for PHX the other day. It was about 9:30 in the morning.

An man in Captain's bars stood in line right behind me. He looked to be in his mid to late forties, and was adorned with all the USAPA lanyards and pins (You know the ones..."Seniority Counts"). I did not see his ID, so I don't have a name or who he works for.

The captain I was flying with and myself turned to the gentleman and greeted him warmly this beautiful morning in our nations capital. The AAA Captain said NOTHING and looked away from our general direction. He did however address a Republic first officer (No doubt telling how America West pilots cheated him, and how Date of Hire is the only way to do seniority). What a colossal horse's behind!!

 

[AAA73Pilot]

......see they have solidarity and a backbone, something US pilots would not know about.

I'll give you credit, you're right about that. From my perspective....... better late than never..........

 

[767jetz]

We'll prove it with a vote. On the line you would be hard pressed to find an East pilot without a Gold and Yellow lanyard, a USAPA pin OR a lack of understanding regarding Allegheny/Mohawk being signed into law. Even the 517 pilots now understand that to keep what they would lose under ALPA merger policy if another merger occurs, it is in their best interests to be outside ALPA. We'll answer that with a vote. No tricks.

You conveniently avoided my question. I did not ask if you would have a vote. I asked, what will you do if the vote does not turn out the way you expect it to? You see, peer pressure is a very powerful thing. I'm sure there are many East pilots who wear a lanyard so as not to be ostracized for being the only one in the room who disagrees. (We've all seen how you guys act like a pack of wild, rabid, wolves and attack anyone who does not conform to your personal view.) The real test is the secret ballot where a person can vote what they believe without the oversight of group who has a history of "coaching" and "rehearsing" others on what to say, and controlling the message.

Most rational people consider the worst possible outcome of their actions and resolve to accept that consequence before deciding to follow through. Your lack of an answer to my actual question just shows that, like your MEC who had no plan in mediation except DOH, you have not considered the possibility that you might be wrong. So once again: What will you do IF the majority votes against USAPA?

I look forward to the day the election is complete. Then I can stick you're nose in all the "_____" you've been shoveling here.

We're going to vote and the card numbers support USAPA!!

Once again you are not considering other possibilities. Many cards were submitted by pilots who were frustrated and trying to send a message, but not neccesarily willing to vote out ALPA. Every card submitted does not equal a vote for USAPA when you actually have your vote. You are betting the farm on something you do not know until the votes are counted. You can't possibly know the outcome (unless you plan to rig the vote.)

Will you be willing to allow your counterparts to "stick you're nose in all the "_____" you've been shoveling here" IF the vote goes against you?

Didn't know 767jetz was a United pilot. Very interesting INDEED!!

No big secret here. I've been around these boards for over 6 years and have always been up front about that.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

End;
I met (well that's not exactly true) one of your brothers. Here's the story:

There we were. The captain and I were in line buying a nice tasty "5 Guys" breakfast sandwich for our 1028 departure for PHX the other day. It was about 9:30 in the morning.

An man in Captain's bars stood in line right behind me. He looked to be in his mid to late forties, and was adorned with all the USAPA lanyards and pins (You know the ones..."Seniority Counts"). I did not see his ID, so I don't have a name or who he works for.

The captain I was flying with and myself turned to the gentleman and greeted him warmly this beautiful morning in our nations capital. The AAA Captain said NOTHING and looked away from our general direction. He did however address a Republic first officer (No doubt telling how America West pilots cheated him, and how Date of Hire is the only way to do seniority). What a colossal horse's behind!!

Great place to eat, isn't it? Just remember it's a 2 way street.

While riding a hotel bus with a west crew, greeted them as they got on, if looks could K____, I wouldn't be here today. I just blew it off as I assumed they were having a bad day. Oh well.

So it really does work both ways. It will just take some longer than others.

 

[767jetz]

your pilots used passengers as hostages during your tantrum was an example of how not to act.

The situation is very fluid, hopefully we will not overreact and use the consumers as fodder in our quest for fairness, as the United pilots have done and are currently threatning.

You are another one who loves to avoid a question. And you are an expert at redirecting a subject to avoid it. You are also skilled in theatrics and drama. Too bad for you that everyone can see that posting a few select articles made of some fact and much opinion from self proclaimed "experts" does not prove anything. Did you actually read the WHOLE article, or just the first few paragraphs? According to the authors there was much blame to spread around. And many of their assumptions are NOT based in fact.

Once again, for the benefit of others who may be interested (and certainly not for you since we all know how you play fast and loose with the facts) let's clear up some of the misconceptions presented by the uninformed... The problems of 2000 started back in 1996 at beginning of the ESOP era. When UA pilots and other workers agreed to major concessions in return for a majority stake in the company, one of the stipulations was that when the investment period ended we would have a new contract "ON TOP AND ON TIME." That meant industry leading ON the amendable date. When the amendable date came around, the company's foot-dragging meant we were no where near a new contract. They went back on their word. Then add to that the fact that prior to this, due to good will, the interest of helping the company, and the hope that they would actually keep their word, pilots were volunteering to work more and more in the face of managements continued expansion even while we warned that they were being too optimistic with their summer schedule and we would be left short staffed. (DID YOU GET THAT??? we were actually trying to protect the operation and our customers from management's problems!) We were ignored.

Finally, the pilots had enough and were tired of the lies and deception. The acquisition of USAir was just icing on the cake. It was seen that management cared more about the acquisition than honoring their previous commitment. The pilots were no longer motivated to help the company mask their poor management, and decided to work only as much as they were required to by contract. No more. No less. The operation fell apart at the seams and the customers were left holding the pieces. The employees were victims of management just like the passengers. Just like the East pilots career is a victim of past management blunders.


Now back to the question at hand and the topic of this thread. What will you do IF the representational vote goes against USAPA? Since you've been proclaiming the righteousness of majority rule, will you then accept it and support ALPA since in that case you will be in the minority? Or will you cry foul once again?

 

[end_of_alpa]

You conveniently avoided my question. I did not ask if you would have a vote. I asked, what will you do if the vote does not turn out the way you expect it to? You see, peer pressure is a very powerful thing. I'm sure there are many East pilots who wear a lanyard so as not to be ostracized for being the only one in the room who disagrees. (We've all seen how you guys act like a pack of wild, rabid, wolves and attack anyone who does not conform to your personal view.) The real test is the secret ballot where a person can vote what they believe without the oversight of group who has a history of "coaching" and "rehearsing" others on what to say, and controlling the message.

Most rational people consider the worst possible outcome of their actions and resolve to accept that consequence before deciding to follow through. Your lack of an answer to my actual question just shows that, like your MEC who had no plan in mediation except DOH, you have not considered the possibility that you might be wrong. So once again: What will you do IF the majority votes against USAPA?



Once again you are not considering other possibilities. Many cards were submitted by pilots who were frustrated and trying to send a message, but not neccesarily willing to vote out ALPA. Every card submitted does not equal a vote for USAPA when you actually have your vote. You are betting the farm on something you do not know until the votes are counted. You can't possibly know the outcome (unless you plan to rig the vote.)

Will you be willing to allow your counterparts to "stick you're nose in all the "_____" you've been shoveling here" IF the vote goes against you?



No big secret here. I've been around these boards for over 6 years and have always been up front about that.

I will continue to vote NO on any tentative agreement until the award goes away. PERIOD. As far as how many vote their card and peer pressure the latest +2,700 cards were NOT submitted from peer pressure as you may believe. I have spoken to several pilots whom still wish ALPA to remain. I do NOT think peer pressure among pilots exist like it does in grade school. As far as I can tell, every pilots "opinion" is just like "pie holes"....everyone has them and they're NOT afraid to air them, one way or the other, that's for sure.

Been to Herndon last May when the march went on? Been to the latest ALPA information meeting last Tuesday? I was at BOTH!

There were no reservations there, I can assure you of that! Not that anyone here wants to take MY word for it!

So we'll have to see. What you ARE asking is if I will EVER support ALPA.

ANSWER=NO! I WILL NOT SUPPORT ALPA...EVER. PERIOD. END OF STORY. OVER MY COLD, DEAD BODY!

 

[AAA73Pilot]

............. I asked, what will you do if the vote does not turn out the way you expect it to? .................The real test is the secret ballot where a person can vote what they believe without the oversight of group who has a history of "coaching" and "rehearsing" others on what to say, and controlling the message.

At least the election would be fair and the votes counted would not be under the control of the ALPA ballot counting group.

So once again: What will you do IF the majority votes against USAPA?

Not going to happen. However, if ALPA stays, we'll just have to live with it. For now. I can promise you this, I will continue to vote no on any contract that has Nicolau included in it.

Once again you are not considering other possibilities. Many cards were submitted by pilots who were frustrated and trying to send a message, but not neccesarily willing to vote out ALPA. Every card submitted does not equal a vote for USAPA when you actually have your vote. You are betting the farm on something you do not know until the votes are counted. You can't possibly know the outcome (unless you plan to rig the vote.)

I think this is where you're wrong. Maybe back during the summer when USAPA first started, many cards were submitted for the reasons you said. However, please explain why this second replacement card drive has been so successful? You really should consider that these cards are squarely in USAPA's corner. Only this time as many cards came in, they included a donation. Further solidifying our support.

Will you be willing to allow your counterparts to "stick you're nose in all the "_____" you've been shoveling here" IF the vote goes against you?

I personally don't want to rub anybodys nose in anything. However, with all the anti east pilot postings of 700. It would be a pleasure for him only. A non pilot expert that hates pilots, especially east pilots.