ALPA/USAPA /West thread 4/6-4-12

[dariencc]

You've finally said something instructive.

This your attitude is why pilots get no respect from a large percentage of our fellow employees.

Don't think so. The poster was not addressing just any non-pilot, but the ultimate compulsive know-it-all who routinely sounds off about issues that he is clueless about.

Show me where the poster has discouraged anyone else from participation in threads on this website.

As usual, your scolding is misplaced. :down:

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Well, lets just let a little time go by and come back and revisit all this. Wouldn't it be funny if the "lav" servicer ended up being right? Ha ha, funny.

I'm a pilot and grew up around pilots, we all sure can be arrogant asses from time to time.

 

[hp_fa]

Actually "the ultimate compulsive know-it-all who routinely sounds off about issues that he is clueless about" appears to have a good knowledge of applicable labor law from the labor perspective. We'll get a good idea if he is right or wrong if USAPA wins and then after all the lawsuits are resolved.

Of course, feel free to ignore me too since I probably also fit your criteria for being ignored.

 

[sharktooth]

I found it disturbing that ficticious cards were used to generate the vote. Pilots that turned down the recall and have ceased employment with USAirways had amazingly submitted cards.

You find the use of ineligble votes part of a FREE and FAIR election. Nice idea comrade.

Sorry. Ineligible ballots were not counted. Don't know where you got the false rumor.

What he is talking about is changing the rules after voting started. Just because comrade thugs in Florida did it in 2000 does not make it correct.

 

[aquagreen73s]

Actually "the ultimate compulsive know-it-all who routinely sounds off about issues that he is clueless about" appears to have a good knowledge of applicable labor law from the labor perspective.

700UW strikes me as the kind of client who walks through the door for an initial consultation and it quickly becomes very apparent that he has been around the block a couple of times and he understands the process quite well.

 

[YVINTERN]

700UW strikes me as the kind of client who walks through the door for an initial consultation and it quickly becomes very apparent that he has been around the block a couple of times and he understands the process quite well.

You would be correct except for the fact that he is a she.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

FYI:

Fellow pilot,
We would prefer to adopt a softer tone with regard to the following item, however the facts are the facts. In perhaps what may be the very best example to date that ALPA will go to any lengths to deny the pilots a say in their own future, with just 6 days remaining until the voting closes, ALPA has petitioned the NMB to exclude a large number of pilots from the upcoming vote. The pilots affected included J4J pilots who have already been recalled some time ago and will be on the property before the end of voting.

ALPA's submission is in stark contrast to USAPA's filing today. ALPA is arguing that everybody who was working for another Carrier as of the November 13, 2007 cutoff date should be deemed ineligible to vote. This includes Pilots on leave and J4J pilots. ALPA makes this argument despite the fact that some J4J pilots have already been recalled and 44 more are coming back on Monday. This is a blatant attempt to disenfranchise East Pilots.

Please contrast this with USAPA's submission in which we vigorously defend these Pilots’ right to vote.

The obvious conclusion - if ALPA can't convince you, through fear, innuendo and misrepresentation to vote for them, they will simply try to keep you from voting at all.

Please carefully read the attached documents, or click here and read the first three NMB documents. We will let you draw your own conclusions as to which union fights for the rights of the pilots.

USAPA, built by US Airways pilots, for US Airways pilots

 

[700UW]

You would be correct except for the fact that he is a she.

Better go back to school and learn biology or get new glasses, all male here.

And I do know what I am talking about in regards to labor, very educated on the matter and well experienced.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Better go back to school and learn biology or get new glasses, all male here.

And I do know what I am talking about in regards to labor, very educated on the matter and well experienced.

...as opposed to Lee Seham who only has his law degree, passed the bar exam and has decades of experience in the practice of labor law.

But, of course, Mr. Seham has not had the opportunity to drive a lav truck, so we really should discount his legal advice.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

NOBODY at this airline, or any other for that matter, has ANY experience in what is happening here. Anyone that proposes to know all the implications of what is happening is just blowing smoke (or smoking blow, as it were). I would have to trust the experienced labor lawyers in this case. Seems that Mr Seham HAS dealt with these issues before, and his viewpoints are rarely discredited by ALPA. ALPA yells and screams and makes threats, but they ultimately agree with him. They have even employed his services in the past.

By the way, lawyers disagree ALL the time. If that didn't happen, there would be no need for courts of law.

 

[700UW]

Seeham represented AMFA when they took over from the IAM at UA and NW and both CBAs remained in effect and no changes were made to them until Section 6 Negotiations became due, 60 days prior to the amendable date and new CBAs were reached.

That is a fact, ask Seeham about it.

 

[sharktooth]

Seeham represented AMFA when they took over from the IAM at UA and NW and both CBAs remained in effect and no changes were made to them until Section 6 Negotiations became due, 60 days prior to the amendable date and new CBAs were reached.

That is a fact, ask Seeham about it.

The "nic" is not a part of anything until approved by the east and the west, in separate merger agreements. The "merged list" process will be suspended in light of a modern C&BL that specifies only DOH, only because the "nic" is contrary to the modern C&BL. The "nic" will be filed away under numerous still-born possibilities and the pilots will join the rest of the company in embracing DOH.

 

[700UW]

It is part of the transition agreement which is part of both CBAs, it wont go away.

 

[sharktooth]

It is part of the transition agreement which is part of both CBAs, it wont go away.

Agreed. It will become history, just like rigs, former pay and retirement. It will reside in the trash forever, never to be used because the TA will never be consummated, requiring each "side" to ratify a merger agreement resulting from the transition agreement to satisfy. Since at least one side, the east, is, hopefully, smart enough to not ratify a merger agreement, likely the worst that could happen if ALPA does not get tossed is separate operations.

I would hope that once Tempe realizes where the money comes from, appropriate changes will be made. Of course, rational Tempe behavior would not have led to this position in the first place.

 

[319hitter]

NOBODY at this airline, or any other for that matter, has ANY experience in what is happening here. Anyone that proposes to know all the implications of what is happening is just blowing smoke (or smoking blow, as it were). I would have to trust the experienced labor lawyers in this case. Seems that Mr Seham HAS dealt with these issues before, and his viewpoints are rarely discredited by ALPA. ALPA yells and screams and makes threats, but they ultimately agree with him. They have even employed his services in the past.

By the way, lawyers disagree ALL the time. If that didn't happen, there would be no need for courts of law.

Let me get this straight. Let’s rely on USAPA’s lawyer’s advice that we can get rid of Nic for free because he has decades of experience. This experience does not, however, include ever negotiating a pilot agreement or representing pilots in a seniority integration. It does include representing AMFA at NWA and UAL. Almost none of the few mechanics left at NWA pay dues and, as we all know, last week the mechanics at UAL got rid of AMFA. It also includes losing two major cases on the RLA status quo at Atlantic Coast. But, I also checked on a few things in Martindale- Hubbell, which is a guide to lawyers. The west’s lawyer, Mr. Freund, has the highest possible rating in that guide. Mr. Seham did not.