ALPA/USAPA /West thread 4/6-4-12

[SegmentKing]

actually mesa didn't cause Aloha to fail, aloha did. Mesa only had 10 seats at $39 on every flight.... anyone with YV Sabre access could see the entire bucket breakdown. And the cheaper seats.. try 2 or 4 max, per flight.

While on the other hand, friends at Aloha said they'd be selling $39 seats when flights are booked at 100, and 110.

Not a very smart move when AQ's segment costs were over $3,800. YV's were 1/2 that.

So claiming that Mesa took out Aloha with 4 50 seat planes is quite the ego boost for JO... you certainly don't want that, do you?

 

[oldiebutgoody]

That came from a statement by Aloha's CEO. I didn't make it up. He blamed their demise largely on the interisland flights by GO! airlines.

It even makes the same reference in Wikipedia. Look it up under Aloha airlines.

JO KNOWS he's winning the race to the bottom!

 

[EastUS]

That came from a statement by Aloha's CEO. I didn't make it up. He blamed their demise largely on the interisland flights by GO! airlines.

It even makes the same reference in Wikipedia. Look it up under Aloha airlines.

JO KNOWS he's winning the race to the bottom!

No matter sir. no need to revisit the RJ/Alpoid stupidity issues. Kindly regain your sense of proportion and proper priorities in these matters. At least Prater-and-the-Pimps' current "National" ..I mean "International" concert tour at Herndon places them on the fast track towards Millionaire Acres......and here you go again, merely fretting over some 'minor" consequences suffered by line pilots...

 

[Flyz4food]

No matter sir. no need to revisit the RJ/Alpoid stupidity issues. Kindly regain your sense of proportion and proper priorities in these matters. At least Prater-and-the-Pimps' current "National" ..I mean "International" concert tour at Herndon places them on the fast track towards Millionaire Acres......and here you go again, merely fretting over some 'minor" consequences suffered by line pilots...

Again you criticize ALPA. Please list the many things you personally did or tried to do to change all you complain about ALPA. You have been a dues paying member for years I bet. It's easy to #### and moan about what you hate, but rarely do I find anyone that actually tried to change what they didn't like. The whoa is me works maybe once.

 

[Flyz4food]

You mean the fact that ALPA ditched the scope provisions and allowed alter ego airlines (like, for instance, the "fee for departure" companies like Mesa, which owns "GO") thrive and prosper, all the while representing BOTH groups of pilots? These companies have wrecked the airline "experience", with late departures and arrivals and poor service for years. All the while ALPA has stood by and watched the deterioration of the pilot profession as it evolves into just another mass transportation system (how long ago was it that being a cab or bus driver was considered a good career?). Now, Mesa has caused the demise of Aloha, flooding the Hawaiiian market with crappy, low cost air service, just like here in the "lower 48".

It's too late for Aloha, I'm afraid. It's not too late to examine LCC's labor groups' association with unions like ALPA, that will represent anybody for a buck! Principles? What principles? As long as the money flows!

So the pilots of an airline have control over whether their airline enters a market? I think in this case Orenstein or however you spell it made that decision. His pilots went where they were told to go. Am I to understand that's ALPA's fault? If Alohas margin was that close to failure, they will fail at some point during the next low in the airline business. The fact that JOs in court now, for illegal business practices is one thing, however, it is a shame that Aloha could not weather that storm. I still don't see how ALPA National could possibly be blamed again.

 

[EastUS]

You wouldn't, and we'd have to go back to Alpo's entire treatment of the RJ issue, from start untill now to begin proper analysis.

BTW: All this "whining" about how nothing's EVER, in any way, shape or form, the least bit of Alpo's fault or doing "is really getting old"

 

[oldiebutgoody]

[quote name='EastUS' post='589603' date='Apr 6 2008, 09:03 PM'][quote name='Flyz4food' date='Apr I still don't see how ALPA National could possibly be blamed again.


You wouldn't, and we'd have to go back to Alpo's entire treatment of the RJ issue, from start untill now to begin proper analysis.

BTW: All this "whining" about how nothing's EVER, in any way, shape or form, the least bit of Alpo's fault or doing "is really getting old" [/quote]
More of Flyz inexperience in the airline industry is showing!

If ALPA hadn't caved on the scope, Mesa and others wouldn't even exist!

 

[Flyz4food]

[quote name='EastUS' post='589603' date='Apr 6 2008, 08:03 PM'][quote name='Flyz4food' date='Apr I still don't see how ALPA National could possibly be blamed again.


You wouldn't, and we'd have to go back to Alpo's entire treatment of the RJ issue, from start untill now to begin proper analysis.

BTW: All this "whining" about how nothing's EVER, in any way, shape or form, the least bit of Alpo's fault or doing "is really getting old" [/quote]
I will be the first to say ALPA has it's problems. I even VOLUNTEERED much of my time and efforts to try to change those problems as a pilot. AGAIN, what have you done? I am beginning to realize it wasn't a DAMN THING.

 

[Phoenix]

No matter sir. no need to revisit the RJ/Alpoid stupidity issues. Kindly regain your sense of proportion and proper priorities in these matters. At least Prater-and-the-Pimps' current "National" ..I mean "International" ...

Yes, international... very well done kind sir. The next thing from the goat-movie producers will be something about Alzheimer's if we are not careful!

 

[Flyz4food]

More of Flyz inexperience in the airline industry is showing!

If ALPA hadn't caved on the scope, Mesa and others wouldn't even exist!

While that may be true, didn't the whole RJ issue begin when Airways was in it's prime? Knowing full well what ramifications RJs were to the industry, please direct me to the USAirways pilots objections to that issue.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Wrong again! We got them rammed down our throats by Dave Siegel and gang. If I recall correctly, he said it would make US avoid bankruptcy. But ALPA COULD have said no. They caved, just like they did on everyting else! There were MANY objections and YEARS of contracts that disallowed them. Part of the compromise was J4J, a program that ALPA no refuses to even recognize. I will spare yo the details....

Delta, I believe, actually started it when they gave away their scope language, and jobs, to allow Comair. Again, ALPA eats it's young!

 

[b737fo]

You guys are right. It is all just ALPA's fault. After all, independent unions have been soooo successful at solving the RJ "problem". Just look at how well the APA has done for example. There are only hundreds of American Eagle and American Connection jets flying around the system.

What next? Oswald wasn't a lone shooter. ALPA was part of the conspiracy in Dallas too.

 

[Flyz4food]

Wrong again! We got them rammed down our throats by Dave Siegel and gang. If I recall correctly, he said it would make US avoid bankruptcy. But ALPA COULD have said no. They caved, just like they did on everyting else! There were MANY objections and YEARS of contracts that disallowed them. Part of the compromise was J4J, a program that ALPA no refuses to even recognize. I will spare yo the details....

Delta, I believe, actually started it when they gave away their scope language, and jobs, to allow Comair. Again, ALPA eats it's young!

First, Delta gave away all that to do only one thing, PROTECT DELTA. Delta has never done anything for anyone unless it benefits them. I do find it interesting however, you say national eats their young. Isn't our current situation similar. We have two groups, negotiating for position, agreeing to disagree, yet once it doesn't exactly work out to ones desire, you wish to draw and quarter the other. Eating your young is exactly were we are now.

 

[JetMonkey]

It doesn't look like much of any changed format though. It still looks like just another cover picture of some brand new regional guy, although...this MAY actually be a documentary shot of the AWA High "War" Chief, or Leader of the "ARMY" of Leonidas performing morning meditations = "I want the captain seat...and most aof all, I want every single east pilot to pay for it"...."Waaah!...Gimmme!!"..."If you don't gimme...I'm gonna' hold my breath" It could also be a shot of an audience member from the PHX road show. In any case: The apparent age range and overall demeanor certainly fit the generally demonstrated "thought' and behaviors thus far.

I have to hand it to the west though...You folks have got the "cute" thing down pat 😉

But I guess its ok for the west guys to pay for everything the east is trying to get back that you lost, you don't mind that do you?

 

[AAA73Pilot]

You guys are right. It is all just ALPA's fault. After all, independent unions have been soooo successful at solving the RJ "problem". Just look at how well the APA has done for example. There are only hundreds of American Eagle and American Connection jets flying around the system.

What next? Oswald wasn't a lone shooter. ALPA was part of the conspiracy in Dallas too.

Glad you agree with our position on ALPA. 1 and 1 is not bad. You bring up AA. I can bring up SWA. Stalemate again. So what else is new?

Yea, that's right. ALPA did it to embarass AA.