American jobs ?

[Ms Tree]

La Li Lu Le Lo


I see a lot of complaining but I do not see a lot of ideas to fix it. Some of your points are valid some are a bit off the reservation in my opinion.


Most studies I have read indicate that the immigrant population pumps a massive amount of money into the economy via rent, food, fuel, automobiles ..etc. Get rid of the immigrant population and certain local economies will sink like the Titanic and about as quick.


TX government did a cost study on immigrant cost in TX. They found that immigrants put more money into the system than they cost. Then there is the labor issue. Sen them away and who picks food? Who builds houses? Who does all the labor that you see them doing? Sure you could probably find Americans to do it but how much more will it cost? Who will be able to afford it? How much is an apple or an orange worth to you?


I have heard the argument that if you start paying more then people will have more to spend and the economy will grow. OK, who wants to start paying more first? Conservatives are complaining that the increased health cost will sink small businesses but I do not see small businesses or other ones offering to pay higher wages so people can afford health care. Do you? Companies use cheap labor because they want to make as much money as possible. Companies like Costco are few and far between.


So now we have seal off the border and all the illegal immigrants are out of the country. No US company can out source their labor. GM builds their cars here or they shut down. Apple builds all their devices here in the US with US labor. Cool. Now what? Do you think no other company will seek cheaper labor? How much do you think that Apple device or that GM is going to cost? Do you think anyone will buy it?


I have heard arguments that we should put tariffs on imported good to protect our market. I do not know much about tariffs so I do not know if it would work. The arguments I have heard tend to say we would lose a tariff war. I seem to recall we tried it once and did not fair to well. Perhaps someone else here knows more about tariffs.


I assume you want to build a wall on our southern border. How much are you willing to spend on building and maintaining it? How much are you willing to spend patrolling it? I think a better way to control that aspect of it would be to control the jobs. Hire a person with out the legal right to work here and it will cost you $1,000 a person. Get caught again, $2k a person. Set up as data base where employers can verify and so long as they did their job, they are safe. That will never happen because business and the politicians they control will never allow it to happen. To many people making way too much money off of this whole deal.


Personally I think the immigrant ship has sailed. Best way to curb the influx of immigrant labor is to fix Mexico. I think fixing MX so they do not want to come here is a heck of a lot cheaper than trying to keep them out of the US. I think trying to control 2,000 miles of border would be difficult at best.


Like I said, stop complaining and come up with some ideas. I have not seen a single one unless I missed it.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Mitt Romney says Self deportation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObVnA0nIx_s

 

[Ms Tree]

Romney says a lot of stuff. Most of it is BS in my opinion. Most of the people who address immigration seem to address it from the immigrant stand point. I do not see the point in that. As Rubio said,

"Many people who came here illegally are doing exactly what we would do if we lived in a country where we couldn't feed our families," he writes in An American Son, which was released Tuesday. "If my kids went to sleep hungry every night and my country didn't give me an opportunity to feed them, there isn't a law, no matter how restrictive, that would prevent me from coming here."

A person who is trying to feed their family is going to go where they can find work to feed their family. Talking about green cards and visas seems to miss the point in my opinion. Until the reason for immigration is cut off, it will continue to happen. Penalize the employer. Make it so onerous to hire and illegal that they will not risk it. How ever, be careful what you wish for. I believe there are cost associated with the loss of immigrant labor that the US population is unaware of.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Most complaints suggest an expectation. But I will spell out for you how I would solv

La Li Lu Le Lo


I see a lot of complaining but I do not see a lot of ideas to fix it. Some of your points are valid some are a bit off the reservation in my opinion.


Most studies I have read indicate that the immigrant population pumps a massive amount of money into the economy via rent, food, fuel, automobiles ..etc. Get rid of the immigrant population and certain local economies will sink like the Titanic and about as quick.


TX government did a cost study on immigrant cost in TX. They found that immigrants put more money into the system than they cost. Then there is the labor issue. Sen them away and who picks food? Who builds houses? Who does all the labor that you see them doing? Sure you could probably find Americans to do it but how much more will it cost? Who will be able to afford it? How much is an apple or an orange worth to you?


I have heard the argument that if you start paying more then people will have more to spend and the economy will grow. OK, who wants to start paying more first? Conservatives are complaining that the increased health cost will sink small businesses but I do not see small businesses or other ones offering to pay higher wages so people can afford health care. Do you? Companies use cheap labor because they want to make as much money as possible. Companies like Costco are few and far between.


So now we have seal off the border and all the illegal immigrants are out of the country. No US company can out source their labor. GM builds their cars here or they shut down. Apple builds all their devices here in the US with US labor. Cool. Now what? Do you think no other company will seek cheaper labor? How much do you think that Apple device or that GM is going to cost? Do you think anyone will buy it?


I have heard arguments that we should put tariffs on imported good to protect our market. I do not know much about tariffs so I do not know if it would work. The arguments I have heard tend to say we would lose a tariff war. I seem to recall we tried it once and did not fair to well. Perhaps someone else here knows more about tariffs.


I assume you want to build a wall on our southern border. How much are you willing to spend on building and maintaining it? How much are you willing to spend patrolling it? I think a better way to control that aspect of it would be to control the jobs. Hire a person with out the legal right to work here and it will cost you $1,000 a person. Get caught again, $2k a person. Set up as data base where employers can verify and so long as they did their job, they are safe. That will never happen because business and the politicians they control will never allow it to happen. To many people making way too much money off of this whole deal.


Personally I think the immigrant ship has sailed. Best way to curb the influx of immigrant labor is to fix Mexico. I think fixing MX so they do not want to come here is a heck of a lot cheaper than trying to keep them out of the US. I think trying to control 2,000 miles of border would be difficult at best.


Like I said, stop complaining and come up with some ideas. I have not seen a single one unless I missed it.

Most complaints have a suggested expectation. However, I will spell out for you how I would solve it.

Immigrants may spend money in the local economy but, they also wire substantial amounts out of it as well back to their country of origin weakening the overall economy. Immigrants also sign up for state and federal benefits for their legal children (anchor babies) that they do NOT pay equally into. After all, how can you pay taxes with no social security number?

Solution jus soli needs to be done away with. Not fast, maybe a two year heads up. We need to have jus sanguinis only. People could still immigrate here through the legal system of course. Business need to be fined excessive amounts for employees not adhering to state and local tax codes, say $10,000 per employee the first time, $20,000 the second time, and your business license revoked the third time.

The government did a study. So what? American Airlines stated they have lost billions of dollars. Do you believe them? It is a paper trick. Is the government including the tax that they fail to collect, are they counting education and transportation cost, are they counting the money immigrants send out of the country, are they counting the increased criminal activity, are they counting depressed housing markets, are they counting the lost taxes from LEGAL citizens who's salaries have been rammed through the floor, are they counting the medical cost that never get paid by the illegal receiving care (which is why medical cost are going through the roof)? I could care less what the corporate owned government says about immigration. Don't talk to me about cost when you have citizens working in glass factories for minimum wage because they have to compete with illegals that don't even pay taxes.

I might feel for the companies except for this. You have companies today that are charging 20 or 30 times what it cost to make a product. You really think it cost Nike $60.00 to make a pair of shoes? You think it would even cost that if they were made here in the USA? Companies act like if they do not make 3000% over cost there just going to whither and die. Do you think if Apple made an IPad 3 here in the USA it is really going to cost anywhere near the $700.00 they charge for one? Get real.

Solution A company should be required by law to produce a percentage of their product here in the United States if they sale products here. 35 percent would be reasonable. Companies today show the cost of having to move overseas as a loss and get tax breaks for it. You are paying to have your own job shipped overseas.

I agree with you on the fence. I disagree about the fine. It is much too small. I would not worry about a $2000.00 fine if I made $100,000 profit off of the person. $2000.00 dollars is not even a slap on the wrist. I also agree it will not happen because you have too many politicians and corporations making money off the deal. However it hurts everyone else. That is why I can not figure out why middle class people defend illegal immigration.

Fix Mexico? Mexico needs to fix themselves.

There I have offered ideas.

 

[Dog Wonder]

Business need to be fined excessive amounts for employees not adhering to state and local tax codes, say $10,000 per employee the first time, $20,000 the second time, and your business license revoked the third time.

There I have offered ideas.

Dumb ideas.

Fine business because their employees don't pay their taxes, should they file tax returns for them too? I-9 forms are already required and the fines are substantial.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

No. Great idea. It is a fine for BREAKING THE LAW. You are not fining them for their employees not paying taxes (that is stupid). I might also remind you businesses are required to send out W2 tax forms to their workers. They obviously are NOT doing that (how can they with no social security numbers). You are fining them for KNOWINGLY hiring an illegal workforce. It is no different from you getting a speeding ticket or getting a littering fine. You break the law you pay the price.

 

[Dog Wonder]

Business need to be fined excessive amounts for employees not adhering to state and local tax codes, say $10,000 per employee the first time, $20,000 the second time, and your business license revoked the third time.

Yes, your idea is stupid.

You got that one right.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

No, what is stupid is to deny that we have a serious problem. What is stupid is to keep letting companies use illegal cheap labor to lower wages to non livable amounts. What is stupid is to let our own leaders and corporations keep attacking the American worker by massive outsourcing to other countries or massive Insourcing of an illegal work force.The only people I ever hear defend illegals is A) Politicians B) Illegals or those with Illegal family members or C) People making money off of illegal labor. Which one are you?

I suppose you think corporations and people should just be allowed to break the law and suffer no penalty? That is the exact situation we have now. How is that working for you?

 

[Dog Wonder]

Your assumptions are incorrect, your broad characterizations are lies, and the ideas you come up with based on the first two are dumb.

Go back where you came from.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Have fun working for $7.50 an hour with no benefits to speak of then. AMR workers have only been losing money every year (when adjusted for inflation) and had one concessionary contract after another. I do not see that trend reversing. Oh, and also remember when you can not pay your bills that the illegal next to you is actually making more money because he is not paying income tax. Fool.

 

[delldude]

Yes, your idea is stupid.

You got that one right.

La La has spoken.

 

[Dog Wonder]

remember when you can not pay your bills that the illegal next to you is actually making more money because he is not paying income tax. Fool.

My income has steadily increased over the years and is still going up.

I can't understand why a stunning intellect such as yours is such a whining failure.

 

[signals]

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2012/06/seven_years_after_blast_undocu.html

Illegals have better benefits!

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Dog Wonder why don't you show some proof that I am wrong instead of slinging mud. Your not making more if you work under a TWU contract that is for sure. I do not consider myself a failure at all. Nothing you say has any substance behind it what so ever. All you do is disagree yet, you have shown nothing to back your claims. You only rant how wrong I am.. So put up or shut up.

 

[Dog Wonder]

You want proof you are a whining loser. Read your posts.

MAAAAA, the immigtants took my money.