AMR Bankruptcy Update from President James C. Little

[AA89]

It has baffled me since I signed my first card when I hired on as to why a mechanic would hesitate to be represented by a union that focuses on his or her specific work group. But the fact is some guys are reluctant to switch. This time should certainly be different.
My question to SWAMT is: Did your management muddy the waters and outright rig the voting like AA management did on our last AMFA drive by including dead and retired workers in the voting pool?
In addition to apathy we are also battling fraud.

 

[rifbound]

I get your point, and I do realize that the clerk is not my enemy, so direct your anger towards James C Little and the TWU just I should be doing instead of those other work groups. Thanks for pointing that out I needed that today.

may be a silly question but can the stores clerks get on board with amfa or amp? i know that the aren't part of out title group but can the powers that be in amfa or amp let them join? it would be good to have another group that seems to always vote the way we do. i just want to see the twu out of here in a bad way. i just hope enough people sign the cards to get a chance to oust the twu.

if you (the amt's) haven't signed a amfa card please do so! power in numbers.

 

[olderguyAMT]

In addition to apathy we are also battling fraud.

Yes, we are battling fraud.

We are also battling the co., and the union, and the apathetic and uninformed lazy non-thinkers , and the IGM (I got mine) thinkers who get manipulated while others pay the price.

 

[Bogey]

I have question for the AMT's. So we are clear up front, I am a yes voter in my work group.

Lets say that you get some kind of a deal with the company that you vote on and it ratifies. In this example lets assume that your medical costs 250 dollars a month. Then lets say that 2 weeks later the pilots and the flight attendants get a deal and their active employee medical costs is 50 dollars a month. Do you support the me too and want to pay 50 dollars a month, or do you believe you didnt work for it and be satisfied to pay the 250 dollars a month?

Just curious how you would handle this hypothetical situation.

 

[olderguyAMT]

I have question for the AMT's. So we are clear up front, I am a yes voter in my work group.

Lets say that you get some kind of a deal with the company that you vote on and it ratifies. In this example lets assume that your medical costs 250 dollars a month. Then lets say that 2 weeks later the pilots and the flight attendants get a deal and their active employee medical costs is 50 dollars a month. Do you support the me too and want to pay 50 dollars a month, or do you believe you didnt work for it and be satisfied to pay the 250 dollars a month?

Just curious how you would handle this hypothetical situation.

ref. previous quote from thnkppl: "Where is our "me too"?
I found a few things while going through the other non M&R contracts.
Tech Services get 8 holidays. Where is our "me too"?
Simulator Techs get up to 30 days VC. Where is our "me too"?
Fleet Service gets longevity pay. Where is our "me too"?
Many other groups get 100% sick pay. Where is our "me too"?
If there are other TWU groups that get better than us shouldn't we get a "me too" also? Or does the "me too" just go one way? "

Is the Me Too clause fair if it only applies in certain areas, and is not universal?
and who decides when to apply it, and when to ignore it?????

 

[Frank Szabo]

ref. previous quote from thnkppl: "Where is our "me too"?
I found a few things while going through the other non M&R contracts.
Tech Services get 8 holidays. Where is our "me too"?
Simulator Techs get up to 30 days VC. Where is our "me too"?
Fleet Service gets longevity pay. Where is our "me too"?
Many other groups get 100% sick pay. Where is our "me too"?
If there are other TWU groups that get better than us shouldn't we get a "me too" also? Or does the "me too" just go one way? "

Is the Me Too clause fair if it only applies in certain areas, and is not universal?
and who decides when to apply it, and when to ignore it?????

When one's "representation" is in bed with the company and quite obviously a de facto subsidiary of said company, was your question really necessary or is it only of rhetorical value?

 

[Bogey]

I believe this is how it works. Each work group had to come up with x dollars in savings. Each work group had the ability to work with the dollars in their agreements. So for example, if holiday pay was valued at 10 dollars, and vacation was also valued at 10 dollars, that group could give up holiday pay to keep the full vacation. So if fleet gets longevity pay, they most likely gave something else up to help make their nut. I think the me too covers the overall ask and not specific items. For example, if the pilots and the twu had to give up a value of 20 percent, and the pilots struck a deal on medical to pay less and they end up giving up a value of 18 percent, the twu would have an overall claim to 2 percent less. Does that make sense?

Again, thats the way I believe it to work.

 

[Frank Szabo]

I believe this is how it works. Each work group had to come up with x dollars in savings. Each work group had the ability to work with the dollars in their agreements. So for example, if holiday pay was valued at 10 dollars, and vacation was also valued at 10 dollars, that group could give up holiday pay to keep the full vacation. So if fleet gets longevity pay, they most likely gave something else up to help make their nut. I think the me too covers the overall ask and not specific items. For example, if the pilots and the twu had to give up a value of 20 percent, and the pilots struck a deal on medical to pay less and they end up giving up a value of 18 percent, the twu would have an overall claim to 2 percent less. Does that make sense?

Again, thats the way I believe it to work.

No.

The way it really works - "Give the international $XXXXXXX.00 of consideration and we'll push your agenda without a whimper - after all, it's cheaper than paying the troops for six years - we need new Buicks".

I vote to make them drive Fiat 500s or ride bicycles.

 

[Bogey]

No

No.

The way it really works - "Give the international $XXXXXXX.00 of consideration and we'll push your agenda without a whimper - after all, it's cheaper than paying the troops for six years - we need new Buicks".

I vote to make them drive Fiat 500s or ride bicycles.

I understand your frustration, but NO, thats not how it works either.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

I believe this is how it works. Each work group had to come up with x dollars in savings. Each work group had the ability to work with the dollars in their agreements. So for example, if holiday pay was valued at 10 dollars, and vacation was also valued at 10 dollars, that group could give up holiday pay to keep the full vacation. So if fleet gets longevity pay, they most likely gave something else up to help make their nut. I think the me too covers the overall ask and not specific items. For example, if the pilots and the twu had to give up a value of 20 percent, and the pilots struck a deal on medical to pay less and they end up giving up a value of 18 percent, the twu would have an overall claim to 2 percent less. Does that make sense?

Again, thats the way I believe it to work.

The way it works and the way it worked in 2003 is that since AMTs had to get a raise since everyone else in the industry raised AMT pay, we got a much bigger "bill" to pay than the other groups. 17.5% pay cut, loss of longevity, loss of sick pay. If fleet took 15% pay cut and kept sick time and longevity, then what did they give up that equals an extra 2.5% paycut along with longevity and 50% sick pay? If you try to tell me the O.T. rules equalled that you are crazy. So, in reality, AMTs had to come up with X dollars plus Y. I would also like to point out that since our base pay is higher than fleet or stores, then 17.5% is much higher than 15% from fleet and stores. Don't ask Mullings though, he is convinced everyone lost the same money. I guess he took math lessons from his idol Ed Wilson. Also the pilots never had the same medical we did. They had a cap on their premiums and we didn't.

 

[strikeforce]

I have question for the AMT's. So we are clear up front, I am a yes voter in my work group.

Lets say that you get some kind of a deal with the company that you vote on and it ratifies. In this example lets assume that your medical costs 250 dollars a month. Then lets say that 2 weeks later the pilots and the flight attendants get a deal and their active employee medical costs is 50 dollars a month. Do you support the me too and want to pay 50 dollars a month, or do you believe you didnt work for it and be satisfied to pay the 250 dollars a month?

Just curious how you would handle this hypothetical situation.

So, here's the next question, "How do you know what percentage you gave up"? Can you figure out the pilots share of savings? The pilots may give up 5% and TWU 40%...how do YOU really know?

There shouldn't be a "me too". every group should negotiate their own deal. Hell, the mechanics might decide to rif 7K mechanics in exchange for a huge pay raise to the remaining 3K amt's.....does that mean fleet automatically get's the same pay raise??

 

[AANOTOK]

I believe this is how it works. Each work group had to come up with x dollars in savings. Each work group had the ability to work with the dollars in their agreements. So for example, if holiday pay was valued at 10 dollars, and vacation was also valued at 10 dollars, that group could give up holiday pay to keep the full vacation. So if fleet gets longevity pay, they most likely gave something else up to help make their nut. I think the me too covers the overall ask and not specific items. For example, if the pilots and the twu had to give up a value of 20 percent, and the pilots struck a deal on medical to pay less and they end up giving up a value of 18 percent, the twu would have an overall claim to 2 percent less. Does that make sense?

Again, thats the way I believe it to work.

Right, wrong or indifferent...doesn't matter. But Fleet took a 2% paycut and had their longevity cut by 50% while other workgroups were/are being offered raises (if that's what you want to call them). Again, why these boys/gals voted for this is beyond me. And they are still outsourcing jobs that usually went to the most senior clerks.

But unlike Mr. Tom Barry who labels clerks as "pin-pointed testicle FSC", I respect someone who has the right and excercises his
right to vote differently than I. Where Mr. Barry's anger should be directed is at the 4000 clerks who didn't vote and the dues collecting machine of Mr. Little and the TWU.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

I would like to say that I do not blame the Fleet classification for any of these give backs. The entire blame goes to the international. They love to divide us. The facts are that the mechs (in Tulsa anyway) had to fight our own local and the international with the No vote. After fighting them off, we are told if there are any gains in our next "Offer" they are to be shared with the groups that voted yes. Does not make sense and is not right. If you voted yes then you were not willing to fight for anything better. It should not be the mechs and stores that take the risk to make everyone else's deals better. After all, if the term sheet is imposed on us, does that mean it is imposed on the others? Of course not. That would not be fair either. Restore and more is not even on the radar, but RESPECT is and I for one will not agree to any deal that insults us like the LBO or the 2003 deal for that matter. Do I think we will get everything back? Of course not. But do I think we can get SOME back? Yes. But we have to be willing to fight and Jim Little and his minions are not willing to help us. So to all the Fleet people....... We AMTs are very frustrated and we don't blame you.

 

[amtide]

ref. previous quote from thnkppl: "Where is our "me too"?
I found a few things while going through the other non M&R contracts.
Tech Services get 8 holidays. Where is our "me too"?
Simulator Techs get up to 30 days VC. Where is our "me too"?
Fleet Service gets longevity pay. Where is our "me too"?
Many other groups get 100% sick pay. Where is our "me too"?
If there are other TWU groups that get better than us shouldn't we get a "me too" also? Or does the "me too" just go one way? "

Is the Me Too clause fair if it only applies in certain areas, and is not universal?
and who decides when to apply it, and when to ignore it?????

Will like to add,
Tech Services get $2.55 line premium. Where is our "me too"?
Tech Services gets longevity pay. Where is our "me too"?

Need to get rid of TWU now

 

[amtide]

Mr. Little you deserve every word that Dennis said to you. A lot of us share his feelings about you.

We need to get rid of TWU now