AMR profit predicted

[Hopeful]

I don't recall anything in writing though. And, I've always heard that promises were made to be broken.

How about the mantra "Share the pain, share the gain."
Maybe not an official contract, but now they want us to share more pain in return for more gain?

 

[Interested]

How about the mantra "Share the pain, share the gain."
Maybe not an official contract, but now they want us to share more pain in return for more gain?

yea, but was it ever put in writing that we would get back what we gave up? One can make all sorts of signs and say what they want, but if it wasn't in the contract they don't need to honor anything. That's just another point on where the TWU failed us. Wonder if Judge Judy would make AA honor a verbal promise?

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ----- No, your right. it wasn't in writing. And yes, it was one of, if not the biggest screw ups the TWU made! In fact, it was such an obvious omission that one has to wonder what went on behind closed doors?------ Yes, it was a "moral" obligation. -------- I know! That and $2.00 (inflation!) will get you a cup of coffee!------ They broke their word! But what good is a Company, or person for that matter, if you can't trust their word? What about them can you trust?------ But that was then, now is now! ------- This is the Company Frontline wants to deal with without a Union? 😉

 

[Hopeful]

yea, but was it ever put in writing that we would get back what we gave up? One can make all sorts of signs and say what they want, but if it wasn't in the contract they don't need to honor anything. That's just another point on where the TWU failed us. Wonder if Judge Judy would make AA honor a verbal promise?

To top it off, what does the TWU do when they started negotiations almost 3 years ago?
They DON"T push the retro issue because they don't want to hurt the company's finances.

And the thanks the TWU got was in return the company wants more concessions!!! Way to go TWU!


And MCI, you are right! Frontline would take his chances with no union. I wonder if he realizes that with no union, they could furlough people with no respect to seniority. Change his shift and days off at the drop of a hat. call overtime based on who the management likes the best,,etc.etc.etc!

He may be under the illusion that if he sells his soul to the company, he and only he will be rewarded!

 

[Rogallo]

Frontline would take his chances with no union. I wonder if he realizes that with no union, they could furlough people with no respect to seniority. Change his shift and days off at the drop of a hat. call overtime based on who the management likes the best,,etc.etc.etc!

How's that working for those Delta mechanics???

 

[Interested]

How's that working for those Delta mechanics???

I'm 99.5% sure that Delta pays and follows most union guide lines just to keep the unions out. Now, what would it be like at Delta if our management team were there?

 

[eolesen]

I wonder if he realizes that with no union, they could furlough people with no respect to seniority.

But they don't. Non-union hourly employees are furloughed on a last-in-first-out basis. Always have been, and most other non-unions seem to follow that.

Change his shift and days off at the drop of a hat.

But they don't. We did have the flexibility to solicit for volunteers to change days off on shorter notice, and the most senior person qualified person got the award.

call overtime based on who the management likes the best

Again, they don't.

See a pattern here? Hyperbole. Fear. Uncertainty. Doubt.

He may be under the illusion that if he sells his soul to the company, he and only he will be rewarded!

I think you've confused the company with the international here, Hopeful... Nobody has faith in the company anymore, yet too many of you carrying a union card still seem to put your faith in them looking out for your best interests....

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ------- So what are you trying to say Olesen?------- Bottom line here is AA's management is not, I repeat "NOT", the same as Delta's!----- They can not be trusted! Their track record shows that!

 

[737823]

<_< ------- So what are you trying to say Olesen?------- Bottom line here is AA's management is not, I repeat "NOT", the same as Delta's!----- They can not be trusted! Their track record shows that!

AA could produce identical if not superior results to DL if they could implement DL's cost structure. Are you willing you at DL wages with DL benefits? It's quite revealing to me that despite AFAs vigorous efforts and the rule change PM-DL and PM-NW crews decided against the union as DL provides higher base pay and aparently is better overall for junior FAs on reserve. However, I seem to remember hearing DL pilots out earn their AA counterparts on certain equipment types such as the 777, 738, and 757. I think it largely depends if the position if FO or Captain and seniority but DL 777 is higher as it has the same hourly rate as the NW 744.

Josh

 

[Hopeful]

But they don't. Non-union hourly employees are furloughed on a last-in-first-out basis. Always have been, and most other non-unions seem to follow that.



But they don't. We did have the flexibility to solicit for volunteers to change days off on shorter notice, and the most senior person qualified person got the award.



Again, they don't.

See a pattern here? Hyperbole. Fear. Uncertainty. Doubt.



I think you've confused the company with the international here, Hopeful... Nobody has faith in the company anymore, yet too many of you carrying a union card still seem to put your faith in them looking out for your best interests....

Wow Eric, it is truly amazing how you can speak for for EVERY non-union outfit. A perfect example is my wife who works for a firm with no union. She has the most seniority in her department but they DO NOT respect seniority. She put in for Christmas week off and they denied it. They gave it to someone who is basically the favorite of the manager.
When they furlough people, they go performance, or better yet, who kisses the best butt.
Please spare me your end-all opinions on this matter. With no union and no contract, management will do whatever they wish..just like they do their own management staff.

 

[eolesen]

Wow Eric, it is truly amazing how you can speak for for EVERY non-union outfit. A perfect example is my wife who works for a firm with no union. She has the most seniority in her department but they DO NOT respect seniority. She put in for Christmas week off and they denied it. They gave it to someone who is basically the favorite of the manager.
When they furlough people, they go performance, or better yet, who kisses the best butt.
Please spare me your end-all opinions on this matter. With no union and no contract, management will do whatever they wish..just like they do their own management staff.

So, you guys seem to know how the company treats non-union employees and management. I used to be in both workgroups...

Yet you are the experts, and have the end-all opinions on how other workgroups that you haven't been part of are treated because your wife didn't get Christmas week off? OK. That makes a whole lot of sense now.

 

[Hopeful]

So, you guys seem to know how the company treats non-union employees and management. I used to be in both workgroups...

Yet you are the experts, and have the end-all opinions on how other workgroups that you haven't been part of are treated because your wife didn't get Christmas week off? OK. That makes a whole lot of sense now.

All I needed was the one example because you made the blanket statement that non-union companies do everything like those who have unions.
How about the supervisors right here at AA.....Getting bounced around like ping pong balls, moving from shift to shift, being forced to come in on their days off, or before and after shift for a meeting? In some cases steady days are changed almost monthly.
Being told they need to work a double shift because of the lack of coverage on another shift.
No respect for seniority in management either!

And I know people like you could care less about seniority. And in the 9-5, weekend off world, seniority probably doesn't matter. But in a 24/7 world, especially airlines, that seniority means an awful lot.

 

[Bob Owens]

See a pattern here? Hyperbole. Fear. Uncertainty. Doubt.

Sure do, from the APFA:

The strategy was based on "Active Engagement," a theory outlined in our current CEO's 1982 Thesis. The theory
points out that it's historically difficult to get real concessions from employees unless the company can convince employees that all will be lost if concessionsaren't achieved. In order to accomplish this, the theory stresses, the
company needs the cooperation of union leadership in an effort to promote doom and gloom to the employees. It is only through this tag- team effort that employees will forfeit pay, benefits and work rules without asking too
many questions. It’s a strategy based on hysteria, fear, intimidation and harassment — facts are completely omitted.

Sadly many of our leaders are still buying in. Despite the fact that revenues have increased by $billions$ while the ranks of employees have been thinned by the thousands. Despite the fact that as we look around the workplace we see the company spend, spend, spend. Despite the fact that every 8 days they recieve a new airplane as we continue to drive old cars. Despite the fact that they give themselves bonuses with the savings they get from us, despite the fact that if we try to nonrev a seat cant be had. Sometimes I wonder if they really believe it or do they just like the perks they get for selling it. Maybe if they didnt get those A-5 passes and made it back into coach once in a while they would see the planes are full. Kudos to the APFA for putting out the info on Arpeys thesis.

The fact is although it sounds chiche the Union is the members, while they may not trust the International they know that they have a contract, which is a legal document that affords them a certain degree of protection and guarantees them certain rights. Its nowhere near perfect but better than no contract or non-union, and I've worked both.

 

[BonTemps]

All I needed was the one example because you made the blanket statement that non-union companies do everything like those who have unions.
How about the supervisors right here at AA.....Getting bounced around like ping pong balls, moving from shift to shift, being forced to come in on their days off, or before and after shift for a meeting? In some cases steady days are changed almost monthly.
Being told they need to work a double shift because of the lack of coverage on another shift.
No respect for seniority in management either!

And I know people like you could care less about seniority. And in the 9-5, weekend off world, seniority probably doesn't matter. But in a 24/7 world, especially airlines, that seniority means an awful lot.

I've seen that with my own eyes, at LAX the CSM's work doubles, sometimes 2 or 3 days straight and from what I heard they don't get paid extra and are told not to put all the extra hours on their time card. You'd think that was illegal but they said HR looks the other way... At DFW there are the favorites of the upper management they get the nice special assignments at HDQ (some were crew chiefs not too long ago) shifts tailored to them, while the decent CSM's are treated like dirt. UNION ALL THE WAY

 

[bbrooks1963]

I've seen that with my own eyes, at LAX the CSM's work doubles, sometimes 2 or 3 days straight and from what I heard they don't get paid extra and are told not to put all the extra hours on their time card. You'd think that was illegal but they said HR looks the other way... At DFW there are the favorites of the upper management they get the nice special assignments at HDQ (some were crew chiefs not too long ago) shifts tailored to them, while the decent CSM's are treated like dirt. UNION ALL THE WAY

I think your full of $h_T.