AMT compensation

[odie01]

In my opinion OH is done at AA. The union basically priced themselves out of OH jobs with wages that don't reflect existing wages in other overhaul facilities in the US or abroad. I'm not trying to be anti-union but let's face reality by proposing above market wages for OH will lead AA to test the MRO market. Remember the 757 yield problems....don't you think AA is using that threat to go out and test the OH market?
Guys, Line vs. OH is not BS, and people on the line are finally realizing that Line's value has been compromised for the benefit of OH. In other words, we're thinking outside the box....FINALLY! But there's an 800 pound gorilla named OH that's holding us back from getting the going rate for line maintenance. As a stand alone group Line is worth $50.13 per hour, and as part of OH and the masses it's been $33. Very good arguement to seperate from OH.

This argument is for another contract and a different union. We have to stick together right now.....like it , or not.

 

[TWU informer]

This argument is for another contract and a different union. We have to stick together right now.....like it , or not.

By "different union" do you mean this 800 pound Gorilla problem will be AMP's position if certified?

 

[Interested]

In my opinion OH is done at AA. The union basically priced themselves out of OH jobs with wages that don't reflect existing wages in other overhaul facilities in the US or abroad. I'm not trying to be anti-union but let's face reality by proposing above market wages for OH will lead AA to test the MRO market. Remember the 757 yield problems....don't you think AA is using that threat to go out and test the OH market?
Guys, Line vs. OH is not BS, and people on the line are finally realizing that Line's value has been compromised for the benefit of OH. In other words, we're thinking outside the box....FINALLY! But there's an 800 pound gorilla named OH that's holding us back from getting the going rate for line maintenance. As a stand alone group Line is worth $50.13 per hour, and as part of OH and the masses it's been $33. Very good arguement to seperate from OH.

So, if line and OH had separate contracts, and the OH guys went on strike would the line guys walk also???

 

[Vortilon]

BS it doesn't take long reading through these bulletin boards to see he is not the only one that feels that way.
He is just one of many that tells it the true way he sees it.

The others are playing the game to get there but in a more stealth manner. Including some negotiators.

Any way you slice it, he is a newb to this BB - or is he? Why the sudden interest? Most of us have been at it going back to the "mechanic.com".

You were irreplaceable during the AMFA drive, get back on board - the AMP drive could use your support!

 

[odie01]

By "different union" do you mean this 800 pound Gorilla problem will be AMP's position if certified?

AMP will represent title 1 and title 2 Aviation Maintenance Professionals and the twu international gorilla that is on our back will be gone!! Let's try Democracy for a change, and see what happens.

 

[midnights]

So, if line and OH had separate contracts, and the OH guys went on strike would the line guys walk also???

Yes.

 

[Bob Owens]

The actual cost of the pension plan compared to a defined contribution/401(k) plan is certainly capable of calculation, but way beyond my abilities. And Bob, your pension rests on a lot more than the $1127 shown on your total value statement. Defined benefit plans do not maintain segregated accounts for each participant. When you retire, your benefit check comes out of the pool, and that pool currently has $7.8 billion in it.

It seems to be beyond anybodys capabilities because I asked and never got a straight answer.

Lets say AA terminates the DB and years down the road after half the people who are covered under the pllan die off and the plan still has billions in it, what happens to the rest of those funds? Could the company simply buy an annuity for the remaining participants and pocket the billions? Like they did with the Supplimental Medical?

At the beginning of 2010, the plans had a littel more than $7 billion of assets. During 2010, the plans earned $837 million of investment income and gains. That's about 12%. Not bad. At the end of 2010, the plans were worth $7.77 billion, more than 10% greater than they were worth at the beginning of the year. If the investment performance were to continue for a few years, AA's cash contributions will be reduced. If the investments do poorly, then AA's cash contributions will go up.

Well in the 90s there were years when AA didnt have to contribute anything, in fact IIRC they drew monies out because the plan outperformed expectations.

About the bolded portion, the answer is yes. Congress finally authorized a longer catch-up period for underfunded plans. That was too late for UAL, however, as UAL faced required contrbutions of a couple billion dollars in 2002-04 and did not have the cash to make those contributions. So UAL management choose the alternative and filed Ch 11 and terminated the plans, wiping out much of the pensions received by retired pilots and much of the pension already earned and vested for many active pilots. Same thing at US. The delay Congress authorized gives companies some breathing room so that they don't have to make up pension shortfalls quickly. For companies that have shown a commitment to preserving the pensions, the longer make-up periods are a good thing.

How long was the make up period? I ask this because lets say they have a 10 year make up period, they could allow a company to manipulate those payments to make their arguement that they need concessions. Last year our Union was telling us that we needed to get a contract in place because AA had a "billion dollar pension payment coming sue" and that could trigger a BK filing, well as you said they paid less than $500 million and they paid nothing into the plan the prior year.

 

[Bob Owens]

The union basically priced themselves out of OH jobs with wages that don't reflect existing wages in other overhaul facilities in the US or abroad. I'm not trying to be anti-union but let's face reality by proposing above market wages for OH will lead AA to test the MRO market. Remember the 757 yield problems....don't you think AA is using that threat to go out and test the OH market?

They are, but I say go ahead, and show us the bill when you are done. If our guys are maxed out on OT and they have planes that are sitting out of service that could be out making money and this is just a temporary surge it makes sense and conforms with the intent of the CR Smith letter.

Several years ago AA won a grievance where they sent 727s that they were pulling out of the desert to Delta for OH. So its already been established that AA can send work out if we cant get it done. They also send out Fuel tank work all across the system mainly because the guys dont want to do it. We saw the company close wheel shops across the line and send out all our tires, and containers. So that leaves us with the question of why AA would allow 757s to sit out of service? They could send it out if they found someplace that was cheaper but obviously either those places are at capacity or it would cost AA more and its more cost effective to let them sit out of service until our guys get around to them.

The company must not need the planes that badly because they aren't running the bases at full capacity. They arent fully staffing nights, I realize they need heads but they could utilize OT instead. If they wanted to increase output they could call four early on days and hold four over on afternoons to keep the line running at full output 24 hours a day and that could decrease the turn time and increase the output by 30%. Then when they catch up return to normal.

I dont see anything in the contract that prevents the company from sending out work that we cant handle.

 

[iluvaa]

They are, but I say go ahead, and show us the bill when you are done. If our guys are maxed out on OT and they have planes that are sitting out of service that could be out making money and this is just a temporary surge it makes sense and conforms with the intent of the CR Smith letter.

Several years ago AA won a grievance where they sent 727s that they were pulling out of the desert to Delta for OH. So its already been established that AA can send work out if we cant get it done. They also send out Fuel tank work all across the system mainly because the guys dont want to do it. We saw the company close wheel shops across the line and send out all our tires, and containers. So that leaves us with the question of why AA would allow 757s to sit out of service? They could send it out if they found someplace that was cheaper but obviously either those places are at capacity or it would cost AA more and its more cost effective to let them sit out of service until our guys get around to them.

The company must not need the planes that badly because they aren't running the bases at full capacity. They arent fully staffing nights, I realize they need heads but they could utilize OT instead. If they wanted to increase output they could call four early on days and hold four over on afternoons to keep the line running at full output 24 hours a day and that could decrease the turn time and increase the output by 30%. Then when they catch up return to normal.

I dont see anything in the contract that prevents the company from sending out work that we cant handle.

All 757 lines in tul are working unlimited OT most mechanics are FAR timing out, 3 planes sitting on the deck waiting for check. they need another line like yesterday they force weekend OT. I agree if there was a place to do them them they would be there.

 

[iluvaa]

and yes mids only have about 15-20 mechanics while days and seconds have 40-45 mechanics

 

[Bob Owens]

and yes mids only have about 15-20 mechanics while days and seconds have 40-45 mechanics

So you think they should hire enough mechanics to start another line then lay them off once they are caught up?

Years ago when they were pulling the 727s out of the desert and had the bases running at max capacity they sent what they couldnt do in a timely manner to Delta. Whats stopping them now? I feel that either nobody is sitting around with an empty bay, it would cost more, or both. Not sure if thats what you meant when you said you "agree that if they had a place to do them they would be there".

 

[Duke787]

So, if line and OH had separate contracts, and the OH guys went on strike would the line guys walk also???

Not if OH is striking to keep weekends off.....................I cannot stress hard enough how little line mechs care if OH has to work weekends!!!

 

[strikeforce]

Thank you for your many attempts to keep the Line/Overhaul argument division alive. With people like you, it will be difficult to ever show a united front to the company insuring you, other like-minded twits or anyone else for that matter won't get what we want.

Running around yelling "I WANT MINE, SCREW YOU" isn't exactly the mark of a person worthy of membership in any union, rather, it's the mark of office/executive lowlife scum like the "Josh" character that posts on here.

if you knew who I am I'm far from anti-union and will never cross to management's scum bag side, but I'm a realist and I'm on here to stand up for Line because WE have never had a voice in negotiations. Period! To put it more bluntly so everyone get's it.....I'm tired of following Fleet and OH and always settling for pittance. I'm one thinking outside the box. I see AMT's at SWA, UPS and Fed EX working LINE maint. making $50 per hour and here I sit making $33, and I'm not supposed to bring to attention the reason why? Go Pound Sand Szabo!

 

[strikeforce]

You're obviously some sort of instigator. Please keep your not so well thought out ideas to yourself. All maintenance & related at AA need to remain unified, preferably under the representation of the AMP. 😀

It's pretty obvious AMP may not be the answer EITHER! Look around and see how many of your AMFA supporters will walk when AA gets released? Unified, HA! Unified my ass! It's been 8 years of taking it in the shorts, and I walk around with a bullseye on my back along with a few other guys that DO OUR JOBS! You don't like the truth, and most of the guys on here don't want to here the truth. We all pay the same union dues, but don't get equal SAY in anything that happens around here. It's been like that for many years. I'm tired of this and bringing other ideas to realistic problems. GET IT!
Screw the TWU....AMP and any other union that caters to the wishes of the majority, and leaves the minority following with our hand out! That's been my life at AA for 20 years! Not any more Pal!

 

[OldBubba]

All 757 lines in tul are working unlimited OT most mechanics are FAR timing out, 3 planes sitting on the deck waiting for check. they need another line like yesterday they force weekend OT. I agree if there was a place to do them them they would be there.

And who wanted MCI Shut down!?
What did you think would happen? LOL
Very little OT where I'm at, like none!!! And I like it that way!
Summer coming and I'll be playing! Thanks for doing me a favor