AMT compensation

[Duke787]

Weren't you a Yes vote? So you were'nt willing to strike for money either so this doesnt come as a suprise.

we have lost out on about $6000 dollars in pay alone come may, on the TA that was voted down, I doubt we'll be able to makeup that amount of money with the new contract if we ever get one, based on the progress that is posted it doesn't look like we're getting one anytime soon, that's $6000 a year we're missing out on............IL tax went up 60%, this year.

 

[Duke787]

Voted down TA

article 4 page 23.............Maintenance base employees will receive a weekend shift premium of fifty cents per hour for all hours worked on shifts beginning between 2100 friday & 2100 sunday.


Paid extra to work weekends just for OH!!!!!! AA Line mechs are getting paid $10 less an hour compared to UPS, FEDEX, and SWA. Even Jetblue is making $5 more an hour then us. AA OH is making $10 an hour more then Timco and AAR. But yet only OH gets the weekend premium. OH is being treated so unfairly?

I say seperate contracts!!!!!!

 

[paul1]

maybe o/h should have read the T/A


not only get the weekend pay , tule operations would have got $1.95 line premium page 22 c-2


under the new proposal to the company you are looking at .05 cents more


(6) An employee assigned to the Maintenance Bases who works a regular scheduled shift, which includes a Saturday and/or Sunday, as defined in Article 3(i)(2), will receive a weekend Premium of fifty-five cents ($.55) per hour, in addition to the Base premium.



An employee, while regularly assigned to the classification of Inspector, Crew Chief – Aviation Maintenance Technician, Technical Crew Chief – Aviation Maintenance Technician, Aviation Maintenance Technician, Crew Chief Plant Maintenance Mechanic, Technical Crew Chief – Plant Maintenance Mechanic, and Plant Maintenance Mechanic at Maintenance Bases, will receive a Base Premium of two dollars ($2.00) per hour.
(3) All employees not receiving a premium as provided in 4c(1) and 4c(2) will receive a Base/Line Premium of one dollar twenty cents ($1.20) per


almost one year later and still taking to the back roads


HEY when is next session, why wait for the mediator , the pilots don't need one for every little b.s. task




united gets T/A. we would have be making more than the current t/a for united

 

[skydrol]

While all this chest pounding, drum beating, and strategies to fight a battle go on, the fact still remains that we continue to work under a concession agreement that fast approaching 8 years in length. All the while we were pacified by James C Little on his "without further ratification" Industry Leading in reverse agreement by the offering of the long past and never used "early opener option" on the agreement.

I am personally tired of the radicals controlling the pace of negotiations by trying to re-negotiate every article of the previous T/A and then offering a proposal that appears to have done nothing more than eliminate any chance of an agreement as to when to meet to negotiate next.

After several request for explanation as to why there were no future mediation dates were set, we have been stonewalled by the same radicals that have created the problem.

I am tired of the tough talk, while we are subjected to secret negotiations that leave us wondering what exactly is really taking place.

You guys might be able to survive on adrenalin created by tough talk, but that doesn't do a damn thing relieve the suffering of the membership.

Get on with it already.

What is your solution ? take the last proposal that takes more away than gives ? Just so you can feel warm inside to have a agreement ? we had one in 2003 also and you saw where that got us.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

we have lost out on about $6000 dollars in pay alone come may, on the TA that was voted down, I doubt we'll be able to makeup that amount of money with the new contract if we ever get one, based on the progress that is posted it doesn't look like we're getting one anytime soon, that's $6000 a year we're missing out on............IL tax went up 60%, this year.

duke,

You cry about losing $6000.00 a year because the t/a was voted down? GOOD! Because had this t/a passed our craft would be watered down and we would have sacrificed even more concessions for nothing. You certainly deserve the twu.

 

[Bob Owens]

duke,

You cry about losing $6000.00 a year because the t/a was voted down? GOOD! Because had this t/a passed our craft would be watered down and we would have sacrificed even more concessions for nothing. You certainly deserve the twu.

No doubt he voted YES for the concessions in 2003 that cost him a minumum of $120,000 now he's complaining about waiting and holding out for more. Duke is doing the same thing Union Busters do. Company man through and through.

 

[Duke787]

No doubt he voted YES for the concessions in 2003 that cost him a minumum of $120,000 now he's complaining about waiting and holding out for more. Duke is doing the same thing Union Busters do. Company man through and through.

Voted yes for the 2003 concession, voted yes for the TA, both recommended by the TWU. How is that union busting when I'm following the recomendations of the union?

 

[Goey]

Voted yes for the 2003 concession, voted yes for the TA, both recommended by the TWU. How is that union busting when I'm following the recomendations of the union?

Mr. Duke787
You are lemming and fool, I guess you would jump off a bridge if the TWU told you to. Guys like you have destroyed our earning capacity.

Goey

 

[FWAAA]

It seems to be beyond anybodys capabilities because I asked and never got a straight answer.

Lets say AA terminates the DB and years down the road after half the people who are covered under the pllan die off and the plan still has billions in it, what happens to the rest of those funds? Could the company simply buy an annuity for the remaining participants and pocket the billions? Like they did with the Supplimental Medical?

If the plan is terminated, then all assets are turned over to the PBGC which would pay out the benefits subject to the maximums. If the plan were frozen (but not terminated), AA would still have to contribute cash unless the plan assets experienced remarkable investment returns. As far as I know, companies can no longer raid their pension plans and pull out excess assets; after the high-profile cases in the 1980s/early 1990s where corporate raiders did just that, the law was changed.

I don't see how the situation you posed above could ever happen, but if it did, it wouldn't bother me. As long as all participants receive the defined benefits they have earned, who cares whether they are provided via a commercial annuity or by the current method?

Well in the 90s there were years when AA didnt have to contribute anything, in fact IIRC they drew monies out because the plan outperformed expectations.

You may be right - I haven't dug out the old financials to look. If the plan assets are growing faster than the obligations, it used to be permissible to draw out excess assets and use them for other corporate purposes.

How long was the make up period? I ask this because lets say they have a 10 year make up period, they could allow a company to manipulate those payments to make their arguement that they need concessions. Last year our Union was telling us that we needed to get a contract in place because AA had a "billion dollar pension payment coming sue" and that could trigger a BK filing, well as you said they paid less than $500 million and they paid nothing into the plan the prior year.

I don't know the exact makeup period, but I think it was something like 17 years. I don't agree that the company can "manipulate" the requried contributions. The required minimum contributions are determined objectively by applying IRS regulations. That doesn't stop the worthless union from engaging in overly cautious fear-mongering, as you pointed out. The company certainly didn't say anything about a "billion dollar pension payment coming due," but your union might have. The 2010 and 2011 contributions will total about a billion dollars - perhaps someone added the two years together to try to convince everyone to vote yes on the substandard TA.

In 2008, the contributions were only $89 million and in 2009, only $10 million was contributed due to the high asset values prior to the stock market meltdown. The 2010 contribution was $466 million and the 2011 contribution will total about $520 million, for a two-year total of about a billion dollars. Maybe that was the source of the worthless union's confusion when it claimed that AA was facing a "billion dollar pension" contribution.

For workers who want the peace of mind of a fixed pension payment, the defined benefit pension still has a lot of value attached to it. Here in CA, teachers and other public employees have said that they will fight to the bitter end to protect their pensions. I'm a participant in the CA system, and I support continuation of the plans. I've been a consistent supporter of Arpey's dedication to the AA defined benefit plan.

For workers who want the chance for higher retirement income, 401(k) plans offer that chance. Ideally, workers would have both. In my opinion, nobody should rely on one or the other. Even if you have a DB plan, you should be saving more via 401(k) or IRA or other retirement savings vehicle.

Of the large legacy airlines other than AA, only CO is still funding DB pensions for maintenance personnel and FAs. AA is alone in funding DB pensions for pilots. While it's easy for someone to say "Go ahead and cancel my pension and let me invest the money in a 401(k) instead," I view that as a lot of big talk, and talk is cheap.

In the 1980s and 1990s, it was easy to win in the equities markets. Low expense index funds like the Vanguard S&P 500 made money nearly every year. For the past 10 years, however, the market has been flat overall with several periods of extreme volatility. Lots of working class people piled up a million or more in their 401(k)s in the 1980s and 1990s. I doubt the past 10 years has seen that kind of success repeated.

 

[Duke787]

Mr. Duke787
You are lemming and fool, I guess you would jump off a bridge if the TWU told you to. Guys like you have destroyed our earning capacity.

Goey

Instead of attacking me personally, how about having a discussion of the topic, that is if you can offer something to the conversation. This should be a sounding board for ideas and thought instead of a echo chamber of your own opinion.

I can assure you that I am not alone in my opinion.

 

[Goey]

Mr. Duke787
I apologize for the personal attack and if I hurt your feelings or any others who may have voted yes I'm sorry.
If you think that your opinion and ideas about how we should blindly accept anything the TWU endorses or in their opinion know what it best for us is actually contributing any intelligent conversation to this issue than you are more lost than I thought. By the way what's your idea? What more can we give up so this company can survive? I just want to give up my fair share. How about retiree medical, another week of vacation, more paycuts let's throw in some holidays and sick leave. I'll bet you are just happy to have a job and don't care how much you make. Well some of us feel we need to be paid commensurate to our responsibility sorry you don't have any respect for yourself or can't think for yourself and need the TWU to tell you how to think. By the way in advance if anything I said hurts your feelings.
Goey

 

[strikeforce]

Voted yes for the 2003 concession, voted yes for the TA, both recommended by the TWU. How is that union busting when I'm following the recomendations of the union?

Can't agree with you more! In 2003 the union sold us the POS contract with a gun to our head, it wasn't AA. Now, the same union brought us that POS t/a that was overwhelming voted down. The union is notorious for bringing back POS t/a's that are overwhelmingly recommended by our own guys....let's see 1995 & 2003. Who motioned to give us 1/2 pay for sick time....union guy from 512! How many non-licensed helpers came through the doors to water down our craft & class? Anybody have a number? TWU is a cancer we need to chemo.......I want my money back from the TWU & AA!

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Voted yes for the 2003 concession, voted yes for the TA, both recommended by the TWU. How is that union busting when I'm following the recomendations of the union?

Your voting for concessions with NOTHING in return is hugely moronic on a Biblical scale. You follow the preachings of people who you DO NOT elect, who DO NOT live under the very same contracts you so blindly vote YES for, who are UNACCOUNTABLE.

duke, you are the exact opposite of what a real Union Man is. Your inability to understand what your actions result in engrave in the minds of everyone visiting this site and stumble across your attempt at intelligent interaction a collosal bovine's rear end.

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

In my opinion, nobody should rely on one or the other. Even if you have a DB plan, you should be saving more via 401(k) or IRA or other retirement savings vehicle.

.

It is so easy to put all that extra cash into my 401K at the end of the week....
Are you for real??
Aint had a raise in eight years do you actually think AA pays me enough to invest
401K plans are awesome if you make enough money to invest in it.
Glad my 2000 Honda CRV is paid off wouldnt want another car paynent that might adversly affect my 401k contribution
Cant wait to see what my real estate taxes are going to be here in NY the going rates are between 9 and 15 thousand dollars. Wonder how much will be left over for my 401

 

[Frank Szabo]

It is so easy to put all that extra cash into my 401K at the end of the week....
Are you for real??
Aint had a raise in eight years do you actually think AA pays me enough to invest
401K plans are awesome if you make enough money to invest in it.
Glad my 2000 Honda CRV is paid off wouldnt want another car paynent that might adversly affect my 401k contribution
Cant wait to see what my real estate taxes are going to be here in NY the going rates are between 9 and 15 thousand dollars. Wonder how much will be left over for my 401

Evidently, you and I aren't doing as well as the elite believe we should be.