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Yes, but where are they getting those applicants? At the maintenance facilities in ABI/MQT/XNA/CMH or are you referring to line jobs?

If it's at the maintenance facilities, it's because those are considered well paying jobs in all but CMH....
 
Yes, but where are they getting those applicants? At the maintenance facilities in ABI/MQT/XNA/CMH or are you referring to line jobs?

If it's at the maintenance facilities, it's because those are considered well paying jobs in all but CMH....

Line...one of the "cornerstone" cities
 
I agree that there's no way, even if they are successful at killing a lot of us off before we retire, that $1127/year will provide us the pension they are promising but then again aren't the airlines allowed to legally make assumptions that are unrealistic? Wasnt a bill passed shortl;y after 9-11 allowing them to make smaller contributions? I recall our union helping to lobby for it. Maybe thats what Weel meant when he stated that the 401K they were offering would be more expensive at first but over the long run it would save them money. Twenty years of underfunding the plan then get the new guys with the 401K to vote the plan away.

The actual cost of the pension plan compared to a defined contribution/401(k) plan is certainly capable of calculation, but way beyond my abilities. And Bob, your pension rests on a lot more than the $1127 shown on your total value statement. Defined benefit plans do not maintain segregated accounts for each participant. When you retire, your benefit check comes out of the pool, and that pool currently has $7.8 billion in it.

In simple terms, however, the current pension plan is desirable. Many people bemoan the loss of the defined benefit plans across the working world as those plans have been replaced with defined contribution plans that place all the investment risk on the employee instead of the employer.

Right now, AA bears the risk that the investments perform poorly or lose money. If that happens, AA's required cash contributions increase. If the investments perform well (like they did during the 1980s and 1990s), then the pension fund grows substantially and reduces the amount of cash AA must put away each year.

AA says that about 128,500 people currently participate in AA's plans. That counts all the retired beneficiaries and all the active employee participants. Last year, the plans paid out $581 million in benefits. AA contributed $466 million in cash to the plans. Wait: AA contributed less to the plans than the benefits paid out? Whaaaaaat? How can that be?

At the beginning of 2010, the plans had a littel more than $7 billion of assets. During 2010, the plans earned $837 million of investment income and gains. That's about 12%. Not bad. At the end of 2010, the plans were worth $7.77 billion, more than 10% greater than they were worth at the beginning of the year. If the investment performance were to continue for a few years, AA's cash contributions will be reduced. If the investments do poorly, then AA's cash contributions will go up.

About the bolded portion, the answer is yes. Congress finally authorized a longer catch-up period for underfunded plans. That was too late for UAL, however, as UAL faced required contrbutions of a couple billion dollars in 2002-04 and did not have the cash to make those contributions. So UAL management choose the alternative and filed Ch 11 and terminated the plans, wiping out much of the pensions received by retired pilots and much of the pension already earned and vested for many active pilots. Same thing at US. The delay Congress authorized gives companies some breathing room so that they don't have to make up pension shortfalls quickly. For companies that have shown a commitment to preserving the pensions, the longer make-up periods are a good thing.

At the end of 2010, the AA pensions were funded at 67.5%, a much lower percentage than they were before the last stock market meltdown in 2008. Over the long-term, markets tend to recover and, like last year, when the plans earned 12%, further recovery in the equities markets will enhance the value of the plan assets.
 
Your numbers all sound good but Eagle is getting applicants at a starting wage of $15/hour.

Edited to delete "plenty of". I should have said that they are still filling all the slots but they aren't getting 20 apps for every position anymore.
NO EXPERIENCE !maybe,my 21 yo son makes that doing irrigationwork with min experience.Theres a saying - YOU GET WHAT U PAY FOR.
 
This whole debate gets more rediculous by the day ! We are the lowest of the low now,We've turned into the #### hole we used to look at across the tarmac over the years.
Beat down employees,no pride,nothing.SAD
 
Well, Looks like the IBT over at UAL secured a T/A today for their AMTs & related. We will see how they did, soon enough. This will be the measuring stick that AA will use. B)
 
http://ibtualnegotiations.com/items/Teamsters_United_Reach_TA_3_18_11.pdf
 
NO EXPERIENCE !maybe,my 21 yo son makes that doing irrigationwork with min experience.Theres a saying - YOU GET WHAT U PAY FOR.

Well yes, they are fresh out of school. Eagle is one of the places that hires that way. The point Bob was making was that fresh out of school guys were demanding $26/hour and what is going on at Eagle doesn't really reflect that as the truth. In the future, maybe.
 
In my opinion OH is done at AA. The union basically priced themselves out of OH jobs with wages that don't reflect existing wages in other overhaul facilities in the US or abroad. I'm not trying to be anti-union but let's face reality by proposing above market wages for OH will lead AA to test the MRO market. Remember the 757 yield problems....don't you think AA is using that threat to go out and test the OH market?
Guys, Line vs. OH is not BS, and people on the line are finally realizing that Line's value has been compromised for the benefit of OH. In other words, we're thinking outside the box....FINALLY! But there's an 800 pound gorilla named OH that's holding us back from getting the going rate for line maintenance. As a stand alone group Line is worth $50.13 per hour, and as part of OH and the masses it's been $33. Very good arguement to seperate from OH.
 
In my opinion OH is done at AA. The union basically priced themselves out of OH jobs with wages that don't reflect existing wages in other overhaul facilities in the US or abroad. I'm not trying to be anti-union but let's face reality by proposing above market wages for OH will lead AA to test the MRO market. Remember the 757 yield problems....don't you think AA is using that threat to go out and test the OH market?
Guys, Line vs. OH is not BS, and people on the line are finally realizing that Line's value has been compromised for the benefit of OH. In other words, we're thinking outside the box....FINALLY! But there's an 800 pound gorilla named OH that's holding us back from getting the going rate for line maintenance. As a stand alone group Line is worth $50.13 per hour, and as part of OH and the masses it's been $33. Very good arguement to seperate from OH.
Thank you for your many attempts to keep the Line/Overhaul argument division alive. With people like you, it will be difficult to ever show a united front to the company insuring you, other like-minded twits or anyone else for that matter won't get what we want.

Running around yelling "I WANT MINE, SCREW YOU" isn't exactly the mark of a person worthy of membership in any union, rather, it's the mark of office/executive lowlife scum like the "Josh" character that posts on here.
 
Thank you for your many attempts to keep the Line/Overhaul argument division alive. With people like you, it will be difficult to ever show a united front to the company insuring you and other like-minded twits won't get what you want.

Running around yelling "I WANT MINE, SCREW YOU" isn't exactly the mark of a person worthy of membership in any union, rather, it's the mark of office/executive scum like this "Josh" character that posts on here.

Couldn't have said it better myself. I got mine attitude. I was talking to coworkers about this the other day and " If I got bumped from the line and went to overhaul", I would like my wages to be somewhat similar. Some line guys might be able to hold their positions, but in a layoff, overhaul guys have alot of seniority and will bump some line guys out. Be careful what you wish for.
 
Doesn't really matter the name of the "Union".
Doesn't really matter the Constitution.

Stupid is as Stupid does!

Used to be the Bus Drivers Fault
Used to be the Fleet Service Clerks fault.
USed to be the International's fault.

Now it is Overhaul Maintenance's or the non-licensed skilled Machinist or Welders fault.

Which is exactly why I voted yes.

There is no union on AA property anymore....period.

I say instead of FURP it should now be FU..GEO..PAY
I like to print these insane postings off and spool the Overhaul Guys up with them.
Keep them coming A-Holes.
 
In my opinion OH is done at AA. The union basically priced themselves out of OH jobs with wages that don't reflect existing wages in other overhaul facilities in the US or abroad. I'm not trying to be anti-union but let's face reality by proposing above market wages for OH will lead AA to test the MRO market. Remember the 757 yield problems....don't you think AA is using that threat to go out and test the OH market?
Guys, Line vs. OH is not BS, and people on the line are finally realizing that Line's value has been compromised for the benefit of OH. In other words, we're thinking outside the box....FINALLY! But there's an 800 pound gorilla named OH that's holding us back from getting the going rate for line maintenance. As a stand alone group Line is worth $50.13 per hour, and as part of OH and the masses it's been $33. Very good arguement to seperate from OH.


You're obviously some sort of instigator. Please keep your not so well thought out ideas to yourself. All maintenance & related at AA need to remain unified, preferably under the representation of the AMP. 😀
 
You're obviously some sort of instigator. Please keep your not so well thought out ideas to yourself. All maintenance & related at AA need to remain unified, preferably under the representation of the AMP. 😀


BS it doesn't take long reading through these bulletin boards to see he is not the only one that feels that way.
He is just one of many that tells it the true way he sees it.

The others are playing the game to get there but in a more stealth manner. Including some negotiators.
 
In my opinion OH is done at AA. The union basically priced themselves out of OH jobs with wages that don't reflect existing wages in other overhaul facilities in the US or abroad. I'm not trying to be anti-union but let's face reality by proposing above market wages for OH will lead AA to test the MRO market. Remember the 757 yield problems....don't you think AA is using that threat to go out and test the OH market?
Guys, Line vs. OH is not BS, and people on the line are finally realizing that Line's value has been compromised for the benefit of OH. In other words, we're thinking outside the box....FINALLY! But there's an 800 pound gorilla named OH that's holding us back from getting the going rate for line maintenance. As a stand alone group Line is worth $50.13 per hour, and as part of OH and the masses it's been $33. Very good arguement to seperate from OH.

This is a prime example of twu failure, they never put the millions they collect from us to good use. Such as finding out what a customer pays for a out the door check at a mro. Total cost out the door. You can bet if a mro pays a mechanic 33 bucks a hour they are not breaking even on his labor there is a mark up. So out the door from mro and what AA can do in house out the door we need to see those figures. I bet AA has a cheaper out the door price or OH would of been gone before now. Did the twu not have access to the books ? instead they follow the company mantra of you must make mro wages. The twu sucks cannot you see that ?
 

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