An Investigative Report by the Teamsters Aviation Mechanics Coalition
- Thread starter UnionAMT
- Start date
Why did you post this UAL Teamsters propaganda piece, with anti-AMFA B***S*** in it, on the Delta board?
How are those teamsters working out for you at United, anyway?
Edward
Veteran
Moving this over to UA.
Not! No sir. Let's keep this post right here!
Read this Delta mechanics. Your jobs and the safety of Americans at stake. No B.S.
Why you say? Because AMFA is a company union,started by the industry to try and take aircraft techs away from unions that will represent them.
Ask the Northwest mechanics what the AMFA did "for them".
And why you say? Because we should all be in the fight to stop the outsourcing of our jobs. Power in numbers pal. United/Delta/USair/Continental/American/AirTran/Southwest/....
Every mechanic in the U.S.A. that puts his hands on an airliner should take notice of his work being outsourced to any foreign country,particularly one that is communist.
U
UAL_TECH
Guest
Keep drinking the reamsters koolaid.
What are the reamsters doing about the 20% farm out arbitration initiated by AMFA?
Guess what. NAFT! Mechs are still going to the street.
AMFA a company union?
Boy, U don know squat do Ya?
B) xUT
You should do a little research.
I am one of those.
Where were you or your teamsters back in the early '90's when we started the fight against this outsourcing???
The AMFA was started by mechanics like me. I was asked to come over to United back in the late '90's to talk about AMFA to people there. We were just a bunch of guys who were tired of hacks like you who spouted the industrial union line.
Ask the United guys how the teamsters are doing now.
Kev3188
Veteran
My absolutely unsolicited opinion of AMFA:
Things they did right that *every* union should take a lesson from:
1. With a few exceptions, the officers still did their "day jobs." No better way to keep an ear to the ground than that.
2. No white ballots.
3. Allowing members to view negotiations. Even though logistics only allowed a handful at a time to any given session, I think this is a fantastic way to keep the membership engaged, as well as shedding light on a process that not a whole lot of people are privy to.
4. Along with #2, a much more simpler/transparent process for elections, as well as removals from office.
Biggest things they did wrong:
1. Not reaching out to other unions. I understand completely the "of AMT's for AMT's" philosophy, and respect it. I realize that this would have been damn near impossible with the IAM at NW, but what about other unions? How about those outside of the AFL-CIO (besides the UAW)? Maybe an alignment with the Change to win coalition? During the strike, the only cooperation I saw was from Teamster rep'd truck drivers refusing to deliver cargo at NW cities.
2. Not focusing enough on scope. IMO, this allowed NW to whittle the AMFA numbers down too much. A good example if anyone still has access to a copy is the arbitration hearing regarding cleaners in MEM. The company was able to find loopholes in the language big enough to drive a truck through.
Just my .02...
I agree with your summary Kev.
If you were the Prez of IAM DL143 at the time. We would all be in a different situation now.
Absoulutely agree with the post Kev. However, I think reaching out to the iam would have been at best a waste of time. I really don't think the iam would have been too receptive and in fact had not been receptive to any outreach by AMFA. After the battle we had to rid ourselves of the iam I could hardly be surprised that the iam had that attitude. But they really had no one other than themselves to blame. If the iam had put the effort to try to make us happy that they did when AMFA became a real threat to them in the first place we never would have stuck together the way we did to get rid of them. In the end I faired better than if I had stayed even though I had to start over again i.e.vacation, seniority,etc.. But it really bothered me that the rest of the employees (not the iam represented ones) begrudged us having our own say and our own union. The F/A's have their own union and so does the pilots and the dispatchers have their own. But when we try to do it we are branded as elitists and seperatists it really pissed me off. Well now I don't have a union and I don't worry about it anymore, but I do miss the good times with my friends at NW a lot of whom were agents and ESE's as well. Anyway off my soapbox and stay warm up there Kev...
U
UAL_TECH
Guest
AMFA became a union blight since conception. 'ALL' other unions hated/hate AMFA for their transparency and unionism above all else. AMFA never crossed a picket line as did all these other 'so called' unions. Trust me, AMFA at UAL tried to reach out to other unions but had their face/hand slapped away. Unions scab themselves as much as other unions. There is no 'honor' in most of them, with the exception of AMFA. AMFA not focusing on 'scope', that is laughable since the IAM never did in their entire existence at UAL, NWA or any other represented company. The language for the cleaners at NWA and UAL was negotiated by the IAM and was not changed in any contract negotiated by AMFA, yet it was AMFA's fault when they were hosed.
Don't 'even' talk about the reamsters... They flew NWA during the strike. True, the truckers never crossed a picket line, they just stopped in front, got out and handed the keys to their rig to someone else.
Kev, I thought better of you. But if you like that KoolAid, just keep a drinking.
The 'facts' are there and are indisputable.
B) xUT
Kev3188
Veteran
The unions themselves might have despised that, but their membership(s) certainly didn't.
I can't speak for what happened at UA, but at NW, it was too little, too late. At the shop/floor/ramp level, there was respect for each other, but not farther up.
I know that the language AMFA was "dealt" at NW & UA was written while under the IAM. That wasn't my point. What I was driving at is that they had a chance to change it-or at least make it a priority- and missed the opportunity.
... And yes, in the example I cited (MEM cleaners), the language was awful. If nothing else, I hope people can use that as an example of why the language needs to be rock solid in future negotiations.
I hate Kool-aid. You should know that by now.
Real tired
Veteran
AMFA became a union blight since conception. 'ALL' other unions hated/hate AMFA for their transparency and unionism above all else. AMFA never crossed a picket line as did all these other 'so called' unions. Trust me, AMFA at UAL tried to reach out to other unions but had their face/hand slapped away. Unions scab themselves as much as other unions. There is no 'honor' in most of them, with the exception of AMFA. AMFA not focusing on 'scope', that is laughable since the IAM never did in their entire existence at UAL, NWA or any other represented company. The language for the cleaners at NWA and UAL was negotiated by the IAM and was not changed in any contract negotiated by AMFA, yet it was AMFA's fault when they were hosed.
Don't 'even' talk about the reamsters... They flew NWA during the strike. True, the truckers never crossed a picket line, they just stopped in front, got out and handed the keys to their rig to someone else.
Kev, I thought better of you. But if you like that KoolAid, just keep a drinking.
The 'facts' are there and are indisputable.
B) xUT
I have to agree with your post. Coming from one of the last carriers, represented by the "behind the scenes dealing", "closed door letter of agreement signing", IAM, I can tell you that the transparency issue of AMFA is one the IAM feared most.
If only they(the IAM) would have put as much into representing this group against our corrupt management, as they did on spreading the lies about AMFA during our card drive, we would all be in the "same boat together" and might have the strength to fight for our rights together, as one, at ALL the carriers.
But sadly, the IBT, and the IAM, and the apathetic union members at all the carriers prevented that.
U
UAL_TECH
Guest
It isn’t what I said and you not entirely correct. AMFA was/is considered as ‘raiders’ by AFL/CIO Unions and were/are despised for their constitution and transparency.
The AMT’s never had much of an issue with AMFA but the rest of the unionized population did as it diluted the ‘strength in numbers’ mantra. What is the point of strength in numbers if they can not be leveraged?
IIRC, some of the AMFA supporters blamed other work groups in a very demeaning attitude to justify their position. It was childish and stupid, which may also have contributed to their alienation.
For the ‘UAL’ experience, the IAM represented where outwardly cordial but inwardly offended. Can’t say that I blame them either. The Officers/Reps/etc… from AMFA where trying work with the IAM but the IAM was ‘ardently’ opposed to anything other than to discredit AMFA.
IIRC, AMFA only negotiated one contract between NWA/UAL that was not out of BK.
On the first AMFA/NWA they choose a higher hourly pay rate instead of scope. I have no doubt that in hindsight that this was probably a poor decision but I don’t see anyone else that has made any better decisions including the IAM represented at ‘ANY’ carrier.
With AMFA at UAL, the negotiations were under BK but still maintained the 20% farm out limit language. AMFA filed a grievance for this as UAL has exceeded the limit. The reamsters have been sitting on it while people go out the door.
Good, I hope this clears thing up.
Take Care,
B) xUT
