teamsters to organize with other unions to represent Delta's employees

[WeAAsles]

I never said there was - I was merely pointing out that your criticism of AMFA for failing to organize Delta MX rang hollow when your own union, the TWU has also failed to organize them or even try.



I'll disagree with you in part here - With near constantly evolving social media and the internet at large, the function of collecting signatures is made a whole lot easier "IF" the unions particular message resonates consistently with the affected membership - Its the successful delivering of that message that may have become more difficult as the history of said unions and there previous campaigns is also still available out there in the internet ether.




Yes, I essentially said as much in my original post ...

Sounds to me as if you have a more anti union point of view. If someone already has that mindset it’s going to be hard to change any of those minds absent something happening to them to get them to change.

Otherwise most people by far don’t read any of the stories or propaganda on both sides. And they certainly aren’t going to dig through any weeds of history and apply them to any of their situations today.

If someone feels they’re being shafted by the Company they will vote for a Union. If they don’t feel they are being shafted they won’t.

It is that simple even if you come back again to disagree.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

If someone feels they’re being shafted by the Company they will vote for a Union. If they don’t feel they are being shafted they won’t.

It is that simple even if you come back again to disagree.

It's hardly that simple

Just because a group might become aggrieved enough to seek union representation doesn't mean they will accept ANY union.

Contrary to your overly simplistic take that most people don't read any of the stories or propaganda, the internet and its host of facebook pages, reddit threads, etc tell a vastly different story.

With the ease of a good search engine, potential union members can be, and in most cases are far more discerning in their approach to unions, and their histories.

 

[WeAAsles]

It's hardly that simple

Just because a group might become aggrieved enough to seek union representation doesn't mean they will accept ANY union.

Contrary to your overly simplistic take that most people don't read any of the stories or propaganda, the internet and its host of facebook pages, reddit threads, etc tell a vastly different story.

With the ease of a good search engine, potential union members can be, and in most cases are far more discerning in their approach to unions, and their histories.

If you say so.

 

[SWAMECH]

What? Is the TWU too busy trying to organize MX at SWA?

Now that was funny. No such organizing drive exist by the twu @ SWA. There was two guys that tried to sprk it up twice, but sent away with their tails between their legs as the membership hammered them. They started it, trying to reach out at the gates and intersections leaving maint. areas and they succeeded in handing out union organizing to our supervisors, managers, directors, and even one of our upper senior VP's. Then they were done and gone in a few days. We are still perfectly happy with our current representation.

 

[SWAMECH]

AMFA likely won’t ever make a run at DL until the people that were on the property at merger time are gone.

People in aviation have long memories, and it doesn’t take much to remember that NW AMTs brought an imposed contract with them to the party. Even the staunchest Union supporter had to know it was a raw deal compared to what DL AMTs had.

Correct. Delta is not even on the radar of AMFA. The Delta Mechanics would have to do their own grass roots efforts prior to AMFA getting involved. AMFA National very busy now bringing in all the airlines and getting new contracts for many new airlines bringing in AMFA Representation.
And on the horizon of possible mergers/purchases, AMFA will grow, yet again, when/if JB/Spirit & Alaska/Hawaiin get the merger blessings. AMFA is the only Aircraft Mechanics Union that has added airlines and or representation for the past 3-5 years period. Where other Airline Mechanics unions have actually lost members and represented carriers. And, soon AMFA will eliminate another industrial union out of our industry of representing Aircraft Mechanics.
Still holding out hope that the fine Mechanics over at UAL will pull that AMFA trigger again and fire the crooked teamsters as they have NOT, to this day provided one iota item of what they promised to do IF they were voted in, NOT ONE. The top 3 being teamster crooked pension plan, teamcare, and of course they missed industry leading by that much.
Kev., I honestly think Delta will continue to keep the unions at bay by doing what they do best, raise the pay, as the unions lurk inward, so they end up going away. Delta is the best at doing so.

 

[Kev3188]

I'll disagree with you in part here - With near constantly evolving social media and the internet at large, the function of collecting signatures is made a whole lot easier "IF" the unions particular message resonates consistently with the affected membership - Its the successful delivering of that message that may have become more difficult as the history of said unions and there previous campaigns is also still available out there in the internet ether.

Huge +1 to this.

You have to offer a model of representation that people want to join you in building. The AFA has figured this out. I'm not sure any other union has.

 

[WeAAsles]

Huge +1 to this.

You have to offer a model of representation that people want to join you in building. The AFA has figured this out. I'm not sure any other union has.

And yet staring down the face of reality even the AFA hasn’t yet cracked the Delta nut. 🌰

Again though all the best to the AFA, IAM and IBT in their efforts.

 

[Kev3188]

It's a tough nut to crack. That said, IMO the AFA is doing the best job of understanding what DL F/As are looking for in a union and offering the best model to help them get there.

The IAM seems hellbent on repeating the past, and I haven't heard or seen word one about the IBT (either for or against).

 

[WeAAsles]

It's a tough nut to crack. That said, IMO the AFA is doing the best job of understanding what DL F/As are looking for in a union and offering the best model to help them get there.

The IAM seems hellbent on repeating the past, and I haven't heard or seen word one about the IBT (either for or against).

You mean Sara Nelson not the AFA. Without Sara the AFA would have no more attention than anyone else gets. Both positive and negative. Again nothing personal to the AFA as a whole.

Please describe for me exactly what you feel the AFA as a model is doing or does that the IAM and IBT aren’t doing?

Curious to read your thoughts and perspective.

 

[Kev3188]

Ok, I doubt you’re genuinely curious, but I’ll bite:

AFA frames representation as a vehicle for empowerment. The IAM frames labor as victims that need to be saved.

AFA meets members (and prospective members) where they’re at— both IRL and online. The IAM still hasn’t quite figured out that it’s almost 2024.

AFA relies on/expects prospective members to do the heavy lifting of organizing. Part of that I assume is because they recognize that no one can read the proverbial room like someone that works there. There’s also incredible social proof in seeing one of your coworkers organizing as opposed to someone from another carrier. The IAM has a team of back benchers from OAL doing a lot of the outreach. Once they co-opt a campaign it’s basically over. Right or wrong, tribal identity here is strong.

Their campaign strategy is also incredibly unoriginal. The company hadn’t had to send out many updated flyers, because the IAM hasn’t given them any reason to. Again—and unfortunately— this is because the Gl insists that they know what’s best for everyone, rather than relying on people actually in the trenches. This is why you don’t see a lot of familiar names as heavily involved this go around.

Lastly, and maybe most importantly, the way each of these campaigns makes someone feel matters. You and I are too old for such things, but as a thought exercise, pretend we were in our early 20s again, with about 5 years seniority. Now spend about 30 minutes scrolling each campaign, including flyers, FB posts & comments, etc. Pay attention to how you react to each. Which one makes you feel good? Which gives you heartburn? Which one met you where you spend most of your time? Which one feels like it’s built for the modern age (remember, in this exercise, you’re a digital native)?

Are you more likely to base a decision on what your coworker says, or someone from United?

 

[WeAAsles]

Ok, I doubt you’re genuinely curious, but I’ll bite:

AFA frames representation as a vehicle for empowerment. The IAM frames labor as victims that need to be saved.

AFA meets members (and prospective members) where they’re at— both IRL and online. The IAM still hasn’t quite figured out that it’s almost 2024.

AFA relies on/expects prospective members to do the heavy lifting of organizing. Part of that I assume is because they recognize that no one can read the proverbial room like someone that works there. There’s also incredible social proof in seeing one of your coworkers organizing as opposed to someone from another carrier. The IAM has a team of back benchers from OAL doing a lot of the outreach. Once they co-opt a campaign it’s basically over. Right or wrong, tribal identity here is strong.

Their campaign strategy is also incredibly unoriginal. The company hadn’t had to send out many updated flyers, because the IAM hasn’t given them any reason to. Again—and unfortunately— this is because the Gl insists that they know what’s best for everyone, rather than relying on people actually in the trenches. This is why you don’t see a lot of familiar names as heavily involved this go around.

Lastly, and maybe most importantly, the way each of these campaigns makes someone feel matters. You and I are too old for such things, but as a thought exercise, pretend we were in our early 20s again, with about 5 years seniority. Now spend about 30 minutes scrolling each campaign, including flyers, FB posts & comments, etc. Pay attention to how you react to each. Which one makes you feel good? Which gives you heartburn? Which one met you where you spend most of your time? Which one feels like it’s built for the modern age (remember, in this exercise, you’re a digital native)?

Are you more likely to base a decision on what your coworker says, or someone from United?

Bravo 👏 Kevin and I mean it, Bravo 👏 This is honestly the first time that I can recall you putting it down what you mean regarding a deep opinion of a difference in organizing strategy.

I agree with you that I’m not a fan of the victimhood strategy BUT some in the lower ends of the scale and particularly the former Ready Reserves and seasonals may feel that way. Hard to convince any of us at the TOS now that we’re victims with or without a union. Unless you think about lost and frozen Pensions (Let’s not get into it) and retiree medical.

On the rest who am I to argue with you if I’m not the one being courted. And yes I have seen the IAM use people from OAL’s to try and organize. But those they use remember are under the IAM already so they can be pulled from their respective mannings for Union business. Taking say JetBlue here in FLL as an example those people can’t be pulled to stand and talk to their coworkers for 8 hours in front of the terminals. You guys can’t be either.

You guys and JetBlue have to do things a little more on the hush hush since you’re more of a closed in target of management eyes on the ramp and PSA.

Ive “voluntarily” talked to people (JetBlue) on the Bus and on the Ramp as to why they need a union. IAM doesn’t need me to do that for them but I have talked to them and I’ve also tried for the TWU upstairs but sadly they are all (upstairs) just too frightened to talk right now. My guess is they need something to happen to them before they’ll wake up?

Personally I’ve said this before but I think Delta is just too large to be cracked. That goes for any and every group. The deck with those card signing rules are just too stacked against you. If you were the size of JetBlue or Spirit that would be another story since they have both been cracked in some of their groups. Footholds have been made there.

Anyway you’re right I am old. Between 5 and 7 years left and I’m out. Stay warm up there.

 

[SWAMECH]

Ok, I doubt you’re genuinely curious, but I’ll bite:

AFA frames representation as a vehicle for empowerment. The IAM frames labor as victims that need to be saved.

AFA meets members (and prospective members) where they’re at— both IRL and online. The IAM still hasn’t quite figured out that it’s almost 2024.

AFA relies on/expects prospective members to do the heavy lifting of organizing. Part of that I assume is because they recognize that no one can read the proverbial room like someone that works there. There’s also incredible social proof in seeing one of your coworkers organizing as opposed to someone from another carrier. The IAM has a team of back benchers from OAL doing a lot of the outreach. Once they co-opt a campaign it’s basically over. Right or wrong, tribal identity here is strong.

Their campaign strategy is also incredibly unoriginal. The company hadn’t had to send out many updated flyers, because the IAM hasn’t given them any reason to. Again—and unfortunately— this is because the Gl insists that they know what’s best for everyone, rather than relying on people actually in the trenches. This is why you don’t see a lot of familiar names as heavily involved this go around.

Lastly, and maybe most importantly, the way each of these campaigns makes someone feel matters. You and I are too old for such things, but as a thought exercise, pretend we were in our early 20s again, with about 5 years seniority. Now spend about 30 minutes scrolling each campaign, including flyers, FB posts & comments, etc. Pay attention to how you react to each. Which one makes you feel good? Which gives you heartburn? Which one met you where you spend most of your time? Which one feels like it’s built for the modern age (remember, in this exercise, you’re a digital native)?

Are you more likely to base a decision on what your coworker says, or someone from United?

Very well said and explained Kev.

 

[JimmyBop]

Article claims that the teamsters will represent the technicians. DO NOT allow this to happen Delta Mechanics and Technicians. You will be greatly disappointed if you do. They will promise you guys the moon and never deliver one single promise, just ask the UAL Mechanics. There is a many good reasons why we fired them in a record 2 weeks. For Gods sake, stay non-union before ever bringing in the crooked teamsters...

Teamsters forms coalition to unionize Delta Air Lines workers

Apart from the Teamsters, it includes members of the Association of Flight Attendants (AFA) and the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers (IAM). The Teamsters are organizing Delta technicians, while AFA is signing up flight attendants, and IAM is supporting ramp, cargo...

finance.yahoo.com

Holy Moly! This reads just like a company union-busting handbook! You have got to be kidding me writing something like this!?! Why don't you and Bret (I care more about my cobstruction business than I do about my members) Ostrich do something useful like get a TA at Spirit and Sun Country for uniforms or bulletin boards? You can’t even do that! BTW, you actually think the NMB will entertain your requests for mediation after only a year or so at the table? Those poor techs are screwed!

 

[Jalsporteam]

Holy Moly! This reads just like a company union-busting handbook! You have got to be kidding me writing something like this!?! Why don't you and Bret (I care more about my cobstruction business than I do about my members) Ostrich do something useful like get a TA at Spirit and Sun Country for uniforms or bulletin boards? You can’t even do that! BTW, you actually think the NMB will entertain your requests for mediation after only a year or so at the table? Those poor techs are screwed!

He's trying to promote his union. The industry's trash is another mans treasure. lol.

 

[SWAMECH]

*****Pay attention Delta Mechanics and Related*****

Read article below carefully and in full as the last para says it all, and I quote,

"At the same time, he said the Costco workers’ win in Norfolk could become the harbinger of Teamsters and UFCW unions’ push to organize more of retail."

“Their number one target by far is Amazon followed by Walmart,” Flickinger said.


DO NOT fall for all the lies and false promises the teamsters will tell you AND guarantee you will get "AFTER" you vote them in. They will not deliver one iota of any of their promises, just ask the UAL Mechanics as they, to this day have NOT received one item promised to them from the teamsters if they voted for them to represent them, not one.

Also as stated above in article, the teamsters number one target and most important to them is to organize even more retailers at Amazon and Wal-Mart as well as other retailers including the big box stores Home Depot and Lowes and even down to all the grocery stores employees etc...

They will never ever be able to focus on your specific class and craft as they are too busy focusing on all these retailers and 12 other groups the teamsters represent currently including bakers and office personnel like secretaries and filers.

Send the teamsters packing and DO NOT sign any teamster cards just to have a vote. Friendly warning, from a group who has had teamster representation and has first knowledge of how crooked and non-responsive they become once they get their feet in the door. We fired them in a record 2 week card drive because they were so bad at representing our members.
They really do ONLY want to focus on the retail industry as they have already stated.

Costco’s surprising response to workers’ union win: It’s not you, it’s us

In December, Costco workers in Norfolk, Virginia voted to unionize in what they said was a bid to improve working conditions at the wholesale retail chain.

www.yahoo.com