APFA board decides not to allow for vote chanes

FA Mikey

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Aug 19, 2002
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The APFA, in setting up the telephonic balloting system, determined that it would be most in keeping with APFA''s normal, prescribed voting procedures to not allow a member to change their vote.

Remember when voting, you should remain on the line after casting your vote to confirm the vote. If you do not confirm your vote, it will not count.

Make sure EVERYONE you know VOTES!
 

kirkpatrick

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Aug 20, 2002
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Long Island, NY
I understand that of all ten groups, only the FA''s are not allowed to change their vote. Is this fair? The company has changed the conditions, the money, and the length of the contract. Shouldn''t a person be allowed to change his mind if there have been significant changes in the middle of voting?

I voted early, and voted "yes" based not on a liking of the contract but on a fear that bankruptcy would result in far worse. A couple of days later Carty makes a speech more or less guaranteeing we''ll go into BK anyway. That changes things for me. If you''re not sincere, neither am I. If Carty/management can change the plan midstream, why can''t I change mine?

MK
 
OP
F

FA Mikey

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I agree with you. There have been far to many changes. Not the least of which is that BS about 8 hours free of duty, not 8 behind the door.

APFA claims that we haven''t in the past, but this is such a unique situation. I think the opportunity should be offered.

Since the company threatens BK is the pilots take the time to wait for contract language before they vote. A BK filing is imminent and definite.
 

MiAAmi

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Aug 21, 2002
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Had the company come to the unions with a legitimate offer we wouldn't be where we are right now anyway. With the company threatening BK every time we turn around it makes you wonder why they took the gamble with us to begin with. This isn't our first time at the rodeo with them, they had to know that we would be a little bit skeptical of them trying to rush something through. I think they have been thinking long term all along. why not wash the baby out with the water while you have a chance. I think they want us to vote no. I think its more valuable to them in the long run to have us vote this down so that they may have just a little more leverage during BK. Explain to me why Carty would state during the 2 week process that they may have to declare BK anyway? Is that the way to get your employees to lean toward a paycut? If you come out and tell everyone "we want you to take a paycut and we may declare BK anyway "what message does that send?
 

Bob Owens

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Sep 9, 2002
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On 4/12/2003 10:10:17 PM kirkpatrick wrote:


I voted early, and voted "yes" based not on a liking of the contract but on a fear that bankruptcy would result in far worse. A couple of days later Carty makes a speech more or less guaranteeing we''ll go into BK anyway. That changes things for me. If you''re not sincere, neither am I. If Carty/management can change the plan midstream, why can''t I change mine?

MK

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Well you voted based on fear instead of information and logic. This is one of the great pitfalls of Democracy. You deserve what you get. You are not a child, you are an adult and if you let your fears control your life then you have made yourself easily manipulated and exploitable.

How do you strap yourself day after day into an aluminum can going 500mph eight miles high? Certainly your job entails a lot more risk than a NO vote. What were you afraid of?​
 

kirkpatrick

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Aug 20, 2002
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Long Island, NY
I voted on the assurance by the company that if concessions were made, as onerous as they turned out to be, that the company would take all steps possible to avoid BK. If you look at my place just a few hundred numbers from the bottom of the seniority list, you''ll see prospects for me don''t look good. A smaller AA, which is a virtual certainty in BK, will mean a lot longer time before recall. Call if fear if you wish, but don''t think for a minute I didn''t think about it before I voted.

I can live with my "yes" vote if I have to, but I still find it strange that all other groups are allowed to change their votes and we FA''s can''t. I also find it unfair that the company can change the length and terms of the contract we''re voting on, and then not allow us to change our vote. What I voted on on Apr 2 is different from what people who vote tomorrow will be voting on.

MK
 

kirkpatrick

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Aug 20, 2002
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Long Island, NY
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On 4/13/2003 11:53:55 AM skymd80 wrote:

sorry to say girlfriend,


Just for the record, I''m a "he."



The big question that concerns me is why would you, a very junior F/A vote yes, thereby voting their own demise?? Not only will you get kicked out the door but without furlough pay at very least, that makes no sense.
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I''m a "junior" FA with 31 years, thank you very much. BK will mean many more furloughs than avoiding it would have, and avoiding it now looks improbable. The sacrifice of furlough pay was an insult to us, but pales in comparison to being on the street for an extra couple of years.

MK
 

skymd80

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Apr 13, 2003
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Ms. Kirkpatrick - I agree that it seems odd APFA does not allow for a change in vote but I also think it''s odd that APFA buckled under the first signs of pressure and sold out their members. What are they going to do in front of the bankruptcy judge - piss in their pants? Lets hope we all have learned a lesson from this T/A....lets hope they go into the courtroom better prepared and with a new group of negotiators, lets hope, we as members have learned not to blindly trust those in power. Don''t worry about your vote, it has been nullified a thousand times over anyways, sorry to say girlfriend, this T/A is not going to fly, so the vote really doesn''t matter, other than make you feel good about voting. The big question that concerns me is why would you, a very junior F/A vote yes, thereby voting their own demise?? Not only will you get kicked out the door but without furlough pay at very least, that makes no sense. You voted without full disclosure, you voted based on inaccurate and incorrect assumptions (not facts) and now you will pay the ultimate price by being in the next round of cuts. What you should be angry about is the misrepresentation by your union and their own direct violation of our Bylaws & Constitution and Collective Bargaining Agreement. I know you have an attorney in the family - ask him why APFA has a list of over 800 F/A''s in dues arrears and no action has been taken to have them terminated (as provided for in our contract) those numbers would save your butt right now and keep you on the senority list, albeit still at the bottom but with a paycheck. If you lose your job because of this - you have a legal claim and would open the door for a class action lawsuit.
 

xsqueezeme

Member
Sep 8, 2002
43
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On 4/13/2003 9:23:37 AM kirkpatrick wrote:

I can live with my "yes" vote if I have to, but I still find it strange that all other groups are allowed to change their votes and we FA''s can''t. I also find it unfair that the company can change the length and terms of the contract we''re voting on, and then not allow us to change our vote.
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Kirkpatrick-
haven''t you gotten it yet after all this time? the answer to your question as to why the unfairness of it all is because WE ARE MERELY FLIGHT ATTENDANTS, too scared to stand up and fight for our rights and would rather tuck our tails and hide with the pre-notion that we will emerge a stronger group and wait to fight the good fight in the future. Management knows this, and the other workgroups knows this. By the time the "good fight" comes along, it''s always too late, BUT we''ll always have the memory of "the strike of ''93"

that in itself is worth a million reasons why we get screwed over and disrespected by everyone else.