April/May 2013 Pilot Discussion

[Res Judicata]

98% is the number of the west class that approve.

Yep, 98% approve of a MB protocol between APA and USAPA. Pretty easy to understand. What you refuse to believe is that as far as the MOU goes, there's no such thing as a West Class. Relax, your fake union, the company, and the APA are going to be dragged before a Judge as many times as it takes. Get used to that idea. Why don't all you East guys call your fake union reps and DEMAND an end to the legal delays and charades? If you are so supremely confident, get out of the way and expedite the court proceedings. Better yet, just submit to the arbitration process in the MOU.

We all know why that will never happen. The same reason the PIC lied to you for years about a perceved victory, the SAME reason that dude Tracy Parella LIED to you about the LOA93 snap back loss and hid that loss from you for months. USAPA knows this is the biggest loser yet. No Judge has ever overturned an sli arbitration. EVER. Nothing in the court record should give you any hope its going to happen for the first time here either.

If for some reason this ends up being a 3 way integration via MB, you'll end up begging for the Nic back.

 

[EastUS1]

Relax, your fake union, the company, and the APA are going to be dragged before a Judge as many times as it takes. Get used to that idea.

Oh well. I suppose it's healthy for people to have hobbies. The only people that've been even the least bit impressed by all that ferocious "spartan" shield thumping are the west pilots. "Get used to that idea."

 

[Phoenix]

...

If for some reason this ends up being a 3 way integration via MB, you'll end up begging for the Nic back.

You're starting to waiver. Dire wolves and spartans don't break ranks. Hang tough...

but of course if "a 3 way integration via MB" will have the future-residents-of-a-special-place-in-hell-scabs "begging for the mercy of the Nic", well then adjust fire immediately and get after the rabid canines with the super photon vaporizer milk bone switcherooo!!

 

[EastUS1]

Other than a message saying "You're toast" written on the bathroom wall, a "pink panty award" note in my mail box, and being asked by a Captain I was flying with where my yellow lanyard was, no strong arming.

Hmm...that's entirely at odds with all you've previously posted describing those you fly with, especially the captains, being of like mind with yourself. I'm not sure what to believe now.

 

[EastUS1]

You're starting to waiver. Dire wolves and spartans don't break ranks. Hang tough...

but of course if "a 3 way integration via MB" will have the future-residents-of-a-special-place-in-hell-scabs "begging for the mercy of the Nic", well then adjust fire immediately and get after the rabid canines with the super photon vaporizer milk bone switcherooo!!

Aw...cut 'em some slack sir. Methinks the "super photon vaporizer milk bone switcherooo" must still be in the development stage. 🙂

 

[Phoenix]

Hmm...that's entirely at odds with all you've previously posted describing those you fly with, especially the captains, being of like mind with yourself. I'm not sure what to believe now.

If there ever really was even just one pink panty award passed out... oh, never mind.

 

[traderjake]

Hmm...that's entirely at odds with all you've previously posted describing those you fly with, especially the captains, being of like mind with yourself. I'm not sure what to believe now.

Believe it or not there's more than one Captain at this airline.

 

[prechilill]

Believe it or not there's more than one Captain at this airline.

Everyone can be a Captain Officer on the East! Yay!!!
Even if they only make $86 in the right seat.... Hohummm

 

[Phoenix]

Everyone can be a Captain Officer on the East! Yay!!!
Even if they only make $86 in the right seat.... Hohummm

Yes, they are only making $86 an hour, which means there is no new contract, which means it isn't ripe, which means Marty is blowing more money.

 

[Res Judicata]

Yes, they are only making $86 an hour, which means there is no new contract, which means it isn't ripe, which means Marty is blowing more money.

We're just demonstrating how absurd the 9ths ruling was. Years later, still using the ripeness argument to delay and continue the DFR. You can't hide forever. If your so sure your new contingent CBA isn't a joint contract for USAPA pilots, why aren't you racing into court? There has always only been one Party to all of this terrified of a courtroom. Guess who.

 

[Portly Dorman]

Yes, they are only making $86 an hour, which means there is no new contract, which means it isn't ripe, which means Marty is blowing more money.

Thought that was captains pay, it's not the $$$ it's the principle.

 

[Phoenix]

We're just demonstrating how absurd the 9ths ruling was. Years later, still using the ripeness argument to delay and continue the DFR. You can't hide forever. If your so sure your new contingent CBA isn't a joint contract for USAPA pilots, why aren't you racing into court? There has always only been one Party to all of this terrified of a courtroom. Guess who.

When you are the bargaining agent you don't agree to give up your responsibilities to represent all pilots, and there is no sense in rushing to court to ask them otherwise, nor to affirm what is already the case. 🙂

When you have a class that is bound you don't rush to go reconfirm what was already decided in court. 🙂

There is only one party that continues to try to get the court to overrule a CBA responsibility to represent all pilots. Guess who.

 

[Zone5]

How has your theory of DOH worked out. Kerosene just admitted it will not be DOH. The APA said it will not be DOH and has not been DOH since 1986.

Usapa and the east pilots are a re failure.

So far, so good! To this day (and on the next couple of years of equipment bids) for over 25 years, it has worked "just fine" for me.


seajay

 

[CallawayGolf]

When you are the bargaining agent you don't agree to give up your responsibilities to represent all pilots, and there is no sense in rushing to court to ask them otherwise, nor to affirm what is already the case. 🙂

When you have a class that is bound you don't rush to go reconfirm what was already decided in court. 🙂

There is only one party that continues to try to get the court to overrule a CBA responsibility to represent all pilots. Guess who.

Ah yes, USAPA is as clean and pure in their efforts as the wind-driven snow. Never lost a court case, never had an injunction placed on their members, the officers are beloved by all and have never faced a recall effort, never had the cops show up at a meeting, never had a laptop "stolen" from them, never had their acting general counsel depart and threaten to sue them for liable, never tried unsuccessfully to sue their constituents or request to have the company terminate them, never pulled any kind of ill-advised PR stunt like taking out ads in a national newspaper or putting a pilot celebrity on the witness stand, and of course have no fault whatsoever in keeping the east pilots on bankruptcy wages longer than any Management team could have ever dreamed of. No, I must be thinking of a different organization.

 

[Keroseneuser]

You are admitting that usapa the entire experiment and east pilots are a failure.

Cost this pilot group hundreds of millions of dollars, set the labor movement back years.

Why?

DOH was the reason for usapa's existence and you are not going to get it. What a waste.

The is a special place in hell for east pilots.

Ok I guess I did not make my statement clear enough. I think it will go 3 way, by design by Doug in his wording of the MOU.

The final result won't be the NIC or the straight DOH with no protections that you fear. I do think it will be a DOH based list with heavy protections and restrictions to protect what each of the 3 lists currently fly.

From the APA's point of view it is an easy issue with the east list. Even a simple 7 year fence removes the possibility of over half the current East pilots from ever touching a current AA aircraft. Once that seven years is up DOH actually will favor APA to a great degree since they will then have the most "old guys" for lack of a better term.

Is USAPA's experiment a failure? Guess time will tell but to date the NIC list is just a piece of paper in a failed integration position. To date the west list has not been altered nor has the east list. You have not been gutted by DOH and we have not been gutted by NIC and nobody has died of combat related wounds. That is a better result than most of the wars throughout history. 🙂

I think it is safe to say that after 7 years it looks like it going to be a draw. And that is really all the average east line pilot ever wanted. Cannot speak for USAPA proper since other than send in my dues and vote in the elections I am not privey to their inner workings. I am sorry that your 4 year capt. seat did not pan out for you, but then again very very few times in this industry has what was going on the day someone was hired been what they actually experienced. A few rare times its better than you expected, most of the time is is not. been that way since the first days of flying the mail and it has not changed yet.