April/May 2013 Pilot Discussion

[Phoenix]

What was the best outcome that you could hope for from the ninth on the company DJ?

Aside from the injunction being removed? That's adequate. But 98% was even better!

 

[Phoenix]

WG;
I see where there were filings for the Supreme Court, BUT as I recall the case was simply not heard (on a side note, I believe they chose to hear a case involving Howard Stern). So, the "highest court in the land" simply chose to not hear the case (which is quite common in our legal system), and thus rendered no opinion as to ripeness or merit.

If I am incorrect, please feel free to post the Supreme Court's transcripts supporting USAPA's position.

The MOU was a Hobson's Choice (IMHO): participate & reap the financial benefit on a set schedule. It was (according to USAPA's atty) neutral with respect to the seniority integration between AWA & AAA.

You are correct, this will finally be finished sooner rather than later. The transcripts from last week indicate that our seniority "dispute" must be completed before we set out to do the seniority integration with American.

Regards,
CB

I really don't see why it makes you feel better to point out that the SCOTUS refused to accept your appeal. Their rejection speaks to your opinion rather than to the 9th's.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

WG;
I see where there were filings for the Supreme Court, BUT as I recall the case was simply not heard (on a side note, I believe they chose to hear a case involving Howard Stern). So, the "highest court in the land" simply chose to not hear the case (which is quite common in our legal system), and thus rendered no opinion as to ripeness or merit.

If I am incorrect, please feel free to post the Supreme Court's transcripts supporting USAPA's position.

The MOU was a Hobson's Choice (IMHO): participate & reap the financial benefit on a set schedule. It was (according to USAPA's atty) neutral with respect to the seniority integration between AWA & AAA.

You are correct, this will finally be finished sooner rather than later. The transcripts from last week indicate that our seniority "dispute" must be completed before we set out to do the seniority integration with American.

Regards,
CB

Cactus Dave, it just sounds more important when I reference SCOTUS. Only being an outhouse lawyer, I don't know what the correct term to use when a court decides to not even hear an appeal. But one of the parties is indeed happy about such a decision.

I think you guys are missing the point entirely on what Judge Lane was doing. He is not going to intervene in our seniority dispute. What he is going to do is insure all of us live up to our promises on the MOU. Once the POR hits, the Judge will have his wish come true. Our (his) problem will be solved. The dispute will indeed be settled, and we will all move into the M/B process.

Greeter

 

[cleardirect]

Aside from the injunction being removed? That's adequate. But 98% was even better!

What injunction?

 

[cleardirect]

I really don't see why it makes you feel better to point out that the SCOTUS refused to accept your appeal. Their rejection speaks to your opinion rather than to the 9th's.

SCOTUS not accepting a case is not an opinion.

How do you not understand that. So if you have to be repeatedly correctly so be it. Stop sating incorrect things.

 

[Phoenix]

What injunction?

Exactly!

 

[cleardirect]

Cactus Dave, it just sounds more important when I reference SCOTUS. Only being an outhouse lawyer, I don't know what the correct term to use when a court decides to not even hear an appeal. But one of the parties is indeed happy about such a decision.

I think you guys are missing the point entirely on what Judge Lane was doing. He is not going to intervene in our seniority dispute. What he is going to do is insure all of us live up to our promises on the MOU. Once the POR hits, the Judge will have his wish come true. Our (his) problem will be solved. The dispute will indeed be settled, and we will all move into the M/B process.

Greeter

Yes we will move into the M/B process. AFTER the first seniority is settled.

You did read that in the NY transcripts correct?

THE COURT: All right. And it sounds like no one
11 in the Arizona litigation disputes the proposition that it
12 is important to get a timely answer as quickly as possible,
13 that is to the merits of that litigation, both for the
14 parties -- those parties to be able to put the matter behind
15 them and also that everyone understands that that issue
16 needs to be resolved before integration in this merger would
17 be addressed.

THE COURT: Well, it's a precondition to the
11 integration that's contemplated by this merger.
12 MR. BUTLER: Right.
13 THE COURT: You have to figure out what the rights
14 are within that airline first.
15 MR. BUTLER: Right.


You can try and ignore the facts but the court and the creditors will.

The integration between east and west is separate from US Airways and american. East and west has to be done prior. "precondition" to this merger.

Is there another way to read these statements from the court? Spin away. Plain language.

everyone understands that that issue
16 needs to be resolved before integration in this merger would
17 be addressed.

THE COURT: Well, it's a precondition to the
11 integration that's contemplated by this merger.

 

[cleardirect]

Exactly!

So if there is no injunction to remove what is the best outcome from the ninth on the company DJ?

You made the comment.

"Aside from the injunction being removed? That's adequate. But 98% was even better! "

What injunction to be removed?

 

[CaptChill]

THE COURT: Well, it's a precondition to the
11 integration that's contemplated by this merger.

The language in the MOU will take care of this!

 

[cleardirect]

The language in the MOU will take care of this!

It already has.

East west will be settled before US Airways/american.


You east pilots think that the west got suckered by the MOU. Might it be that it is you easties that got suckered? usapa told everyone the MOU was neutral on seniority. But usapa leadership also knew that you RTB would not sign a contract with the Nicolau. So they had to bring you along without you knowing it. Put in the MOU M/B. But slip it by that M/B is only for separate unions not a way to combine the same union.

Step one. east/west.
Step two. US Airways/american.

 

[Phoenix]

The language in the MOU will take care of this!

Yeah, but... yeah, but... yeah, but...

 

[Phoenix]

It already has.

East west will be settled before US Airways/american.

Paragraph please....

 

[CaptChill]

You east pilots think that the west got suckered by the MOU.

Duh.... yep!

 

[cleardirect]

I don't know, what is a calender?

Again, what can it hurt to have the case expedited in SFO? You can't answer a question, can you? Marty probably just got to charge more by opposing it.

It got it xxx handed to it huh? So I guess your latest request will be granted, that what you are saying? Pat has been busy with you guys, I guess we will here what the court says. Bets?

You see any problems with this statement from Hail Marty?






"Strong Policy Favoring
Decisions on the Merits
Ordinarily, the policy favoring a decision on
the merits weighs against entering a
default judgment. But it hardly
does so here due to the unusual posture of this matter.
Unlike most matters, there already is a decision on the merits. Were it not for the Ninth
Circuits concerns on ripeness (not merits), that decision would stand a
nd there would be an injunction on the merits. Four
years later, Judge Silver found no basis to
question the merits underlying that injunction.
This Court should find, therefor
e, that there is ample basis to predict that a
decision on the merits would result in the requested relief.
Consequently, the policy favoring a decision on
the merits would not be offended by
entering default judgment here.

You are down to arguing spelling? But if you want to throw stones.

Do courts here/hear?

First you have to understand that the DJ appeal is the companies case not usapa. So it would be the company that asks for an expedited hearing not usapa. Besides usapa said they won. Why would they want anything changed if you won?

But that is over the ninth agreed with the west not to expedite. Get over it. The appeal is not going to decide this question.

The case in AZ will. Yet it is once again usapa dragging it's feet. Have you read what the company said about more delay?

Defendant US Airline Pilots Association (“USAPA&rdquo😉 has filed a motion (Doc.
No. 9) seeking, inter alia, an extension of time to respond to the Complaint.
Defendant US Airways, Inc. (“US Airways&rdquo😉 remains neutral as to the merits of the
seniority dispute between Plaintiffs and USAPA that lies at the heart of the instant
lawsuit. It does, however, have an interest in the prompt resolution of the merits of this
dispute. Accordingly, US Airways respectfully submits that USAPA’s motion should be
denied.
Dated: April 8, 2013

The company wants this done, the west wants this done. Why does usapa not want this case done? Why not ask the AZ court to expedite? Or at least make the lawful deadlines for filings. Incompetence from usapa may remove the ripeness question all together.

That would be justice.

 

[Pi brat]

You are down to arguing spelling? But if you want to throw stones.

Do courts here/hear?

First you have to understand that the DJ appeal is the companies case not usapa. So it would be the company that asks for an expedited hearing not usapa. Besides usapa said they won. Why would they want anything changed if you won?

But that is over the ninth agreed with the west not to expedite. Get over it. The appeal is not going to decide this question.

The case in AZ will. Yet it is once again usapa dragging it's feet. Have you read what the company said about more delay?



The company wants this done, the west wants this done. Why does usapa not want this case done? Why not ask the AZ court to expedite? Or at least make the lawful deadlines for filings. Incompetence from usapa may remove the ripeness question all together.

That would be justice.

Again, you never answered my questions. Why so hard?